Taiji in San Shou

"Why? I'm not aware of them winning in any sort of full contact competition"

I don't know why either - other than Richard sees Systema as a kind of "Taiji for people who just want to fight and aren't quite mature enough for energetics"

Funnily enough we have quite a few ex-competition / sports people now training with us who, I guess, are looking for a non-sports style.

 

Yes, but what style was he taught ? what type of training did he receive ?

 

Per usual you completely misunderstand everything. You talk from a western veiwpoint about size, weight, muscles, full power hits etc. I am afraid it still just shows your ignorance about Tai-Chi. It takes many years to develop Tai-Chi skills and one of the results is that energy is reflected, the harder you try the harder it is for you, as when you hit a Tai-Chi-er you end up hitting yourself. I am sure you will not understand this, but perhaps it will slowly open your mind to what Tai-Chi is.

 

Go ask Yang Jian Hou, the teacher. Whoops! sorry, you are about 100 years too late

 

I'm not sure what the bearing of this is for TCC in San Shou. Obviously you don't think 'real' TCC practitioners ever spar. You're entitled to your opinion. But that also means that you don't have any experience to bring to the discussion when the discussion is about TCC in competitive San Shou, so perhaps you should make the point you're trying to make in another thread.

 

Tai-Chi is about residing in the moment, whether that moment is reality or training or trying to give on a forum. It is just the moment until there is no longer a *Yi* to justify that moment from either side.

Tai-Chi san-shou is a two man form that with time and experience becomes freeform. Wu-Shu san-shou is overgrown kids bashing each other with gloves and wearing helmets. Last time I looked this was still a Tai-Chi forum.

 

Aikido-ers are my favourit, they are taught to commit in training and they are taught to fall spectacularly. So you can udjust the yi accordingly. Great fun that ends with a spectacular whack into the mat. Tai-Chi-ers aren't taught to fall, they are taught to root.

 

Well, that's your opinion. It's not one based on experience of it, and this thread was about TCC in 'that' kind of San Shou.

 

We're back were we started again I must say, although Mr Dunn's comments seem to be the minority on this forum, I totally agree with him 100%. It appears to me that a lot of people in the UK have the wrong impression of what Tai Chi Chuan really is. Maybe that is because the predominate TC schools there are Wudang, who seem to take a different road in their training than the traditional schools. The traditional schools would never have you sparring with gloves and helmets in a ring as far as I know. San shou as is described in the title of this thread, is NOT TCC San Shou.

Just my opinion.

 

Once again there is no Tai-Chi in that kind of san-shou.

 

my inexperienced opinion does agree aswell.

 

I'm going to start 'Rune' San Shou (tm).

You evade blows by striking runisict poses.

Also when you get knocked out your 'witch doctor', (as the teachers will be called) runs on to the platform and predicts the future from the patterns made by your limp form.

Really? Never ever?

Oh, apart from THE TRADITIONAL FAMILIES HERE :bang:

If you knew anything about TCC you would know that initiation need not be a punch or a kick. It can be a step a weight shift or even a breath.

At last a theory of Dunn’s that we can test.......Where should we line up and who gets to punch you first?

Anyone can kick a chair away from someone about to sit down.

It’s funny that the only person you get respect from here is Choices, who is very happy to have made it to his third TCC class, and here you are recommending where people should train.

Last time I looked this was a Martial arts forum....how did you get here?

 

And yet, most TCC guys who come to our class from else where and take to the mat fall spectacularly :woo:

 

This is because (what you are calling) traditional schools consistently turn out people who can't fight. Who in fact can't even use the theory that they have learned.

 

Since you do not train in a so called traditional school, how can you differentiate what a traditional schools is and is not? Hence, this leads to the next question, what gives you the impression that traditional schools consistently turn out people who can't fight?

Looks to me like you are assuming.. and as we all know “assumption is the mother of all………”

However, I have been to traditional schools that do sparring with boxing gloves, and I have been to traditional schools that don’t. Either way, the Tao gives rise to 10,000 myriad things.. including teachers who see something useful in sparring, and teachers who do not.

Taking an extreme, one sided view in anything is ignorance.

 

Again, you miss the point imo. Within the traditional approach to TCC training, sparring comes MUCH MUCH later, AFTER you have developed the proper body/mind development. A lot of people never properly even reach that level. The idea of TCC is not to stand toe-to-toe and trade punches back and forth with each other, but to learn how to use specific mind/intent/body development strategies.

 

Spectacular defeat, you lose the argument so the personal insults and sarcasm has start again. Lets hope our mod recognises the rules of this little mental tournament as well as he proffeses. Mental wushu sanshou, lol.

 

Ah, I was under the impression that real TCC didn't spar.

No, indeed it is not the idea of TCC, but sadly we are not perfect and so this is sometimes what it becomes.

 

Once again given time and experience choreographed sanshou becomes freeform. Is that sparring? well in my opinion no! different energy. But it is a lot nearer to it in the eyes of the ignorant observer.

 

So we've gone from a thread about Tai Chi in modern San Shou competition to a tirade about how 'real' doesn't involve sparring, certainly isn't what 'wudang' people practice and how we should all be doing 'energy work' instead.

Can we please keep that in another thread devoted to it and talk about TCC in San Shou competition here, and could people please temper their comments with their actual experience of that subject.

I appreciate that some people feel that free sparring should come after years of practice. Perhaps we could re-rail the thread by talking about the competition records in San Shou or any other kind of full-contact 'sparring' competition of people who adopted that training approach against people who adopted the early-sparring/resistance methods?