Tai Hang Dao Gong

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by runcai, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Tai Hang Dao Gong 太行道功 means the Taoist exercise of Taihang [Mountion] and it became know in 1981. The name was changed to Taihang Yiquan to avoid religious association to Taoism when it was fist published in the Shanxi Teacher University Magazine, 1984, volume 4. It was developed on the philosophy of Laozi in seeking balance in unbalance.
  2. ned

    ned Valued Member

    So....what is this exercise ? :confused:

    Is it something you (yourself) practice as a taoist ?
    How did it "become known" in 1981 ?

    Maybe try starting a thread with a question or an opinion for discussion rather than a dry statement we are expected to decipher .
  3. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Thank you for your questions but what do you mean by taoist?

    In the history of China the open door policy started at the end of 1978, and China began to recover from the destruction of Cultural Revolution. According to the group of Tai Hang Dao Gong practitioners in Guangzhou in the South of China, they come to contact with this exercise in 1983.
  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I'm thinking of weeping openly at the notion that "1981" is being cited as some date in the mist-wreathed past. I immigrated to this country in 1981.

    Runcai, is English your first language? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just trying to put your comments in perspective. If English isn't your first language, your question makes more sense. Otherwise, "Taoist" (or "Daoist" if you prefer Pinyin, as you might based on your spelling of "Laozi") is pretty straightforward. Someone who follows the tenents of Daoism.

    So what is it you're hoping to discuss here?
  5. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Sorry, I should ask what do you mean by a daoist or taoist?

    According Zhuangzi 莊子 (370-287 BC), a daoist can be some one who practice the art of dao yin 道引 for longevity. And there are those who follow the teaching of Laozi 老子 without practicing dao yin.
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You state "taoist" and are being asked what that means to you.

    Your posting style is vague and pretty much useless.in terms of any actual insight...the fact you cannot qualify even the simplest of terms suggests you do not actually know what you are talking about
  7. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    The reference to Zhuangzi can be find as follows:


    It will be very helpful to workout the dao in exercise, and one of the idea of Tai Hang Dao Gong is seeking balance in imbalance. This is some what similar to the concept of seeking stillness in motion or movements in Taijiquan.
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter


    It's time to start posting in a coherent manner. Right now, my reaction to your writing is this:

    1) You should brainstorm a lot longer before you take fingers to keys. Right now, your posts are very stream of consciousness. That's a perfectly valid way to do personal writing, but not for an audience.

    2) This is ironic, given your style of writing, but you're also coming off as a bit of a know-it-all. If you're going to paint yourself as an authority of some sort, your writing REALLY needs to be more polished.

    3) You're not the only one who's studied Zhuangzi and Laozi. And the knowledge grenades you're pitching into this thread are largely duds. They're mostly serving as an awfully apt illustration of the Daoist admonishment that "those who know do not speak."

    By all means, say something. But make it something coherent and insightful. Otherwise, it's just preening.
  9. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    I think my approach is just following the teaching of Laozi and Zhuangzi in "doing without intention". It is just interesting to find practicable kind of Dao in health exercise rather then some kinds of secret arts as taught by some people claim to be taoists. The approach of Tai Hang Dao Gong sounds goods with reference to seeking balance in imbalance.
  10. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Whatever the heck that means:confused:
  11. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I'd characterize your posting style as quite the opposite. "Intention without doing." You seem to want to say something profound and worthy of admiration, but you aren't actually doing that. I think you could, if you reevaluated. But as it stands, it feels like a lot of noise without much consequence.
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I disagree Ap - I don't think he can
  13. ned

    ned Valued Member

    This thread sheds some light on muddy waters ;


    ( My precis ) Seemingly derived from an internal martial art of uncertain origin , rediscovered and repackaged without the taoist trappings ,
    " a system of both static and dynamic health exercises ".

    Hardly unique though , in combining Wai dan and Nei dan ( moving and postural ) training . :dunno:
    Perhaps the OP can provide some further insights and relate what practical experience he has in these matters ?
    On past form , not holding my breath though ... :bang:
  14. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Hey man not just any admonishment but that of Lao Tzu himself. This source ctext.org/zhuangzi/ingrained-ideas was interesting especially given the hanzi so thanks for that OP for what its worth..it was something I clicked on so kudos. I guess I'm like the others here trying to figure out if he is really far enough into this stuff to discuss it point by point the way he seems to want, or just fishing for listeners and whether I should spend my ever dwindling time to respond to him ;) and glad I'm not the only one with this feeling..

    OP Let's try an experiment to see which it is, its my personal favorite way to express complex ideas I have rather than paragraphs and paragraphs of words. You said something about finding balance through imbalance. I would offer this counter postulate: that canonical Taoism and the Taoist martial arts don't have that as a major tenet at all.

    A more rationale 'Taoist' statement might be 'balance and imbalance are ultimately the same thing' and that the balances sought by Tai Chi practice are not to seek balance but to not seek any thing at all.

    Before we begin I must admit first and foremost that I am only superficially familiar with Taoist martial arts, but I have read of oodles of books about Taoism in general like I'm sure many here have, as an an added bonus I have a pretty strong background in the cultural antiquities of Asia so I've a good sense of how all this material fits in with the facts. That said I'm always open to fact checking of yours truly so do what thou must ! :D

    I could quote you poetic words by if Zhuang Zi only I could find my old book on Taoist poetry. The man was a truly satirist to say the least and was known for eviscerating with simple retorts some of his most blowhearted Confucian contemporaries. I will try to find the book of which I speak, it's a very tiny one and it's buried somewhere in my stacks.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Well little brother,you can pretty much forget about "Taoist" martial systems.What makes for/where are "Taoist" martial systems? Some try to claim the 3 main "internal" systems are,but Hsing I,T'ai Chi,and Pa Kua aren't no matter what the romanticists try to lay on the public.I suppose some Liu He Ba Fa practitioners can try to make the claim but as LHBF doesn't even emerge until the early 1900s that's also doubtful-especially as it appears to be a synthesis of the three systems above. Any truly Taoist fighting systems,if there is such a thing,are so insignificant in the CMA world as to be non entities.

    So called Buddhist (N.Shaolin,Fu Hok Hung,etc) systems aren't particularly Buddhist either-they use common Chinese concepts-T'ai Chi,Liang Yi,5 Elements,Pa Kua,etc.

    As I've said before here, they're all simply a product of the prevailing culture-that is,they're Chinese.So they're no more (nor less) Taoist than -(YUM!)- my Hung teacher's mother's cooking.
  16. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    The quote "seeking balance in imbalance" is just my translation of a saying in Tai Hang Dao Gong. This concept might have been rooted in the Chinese Culture of Tian Ren He Yi 天人合一, harmony between men and heaven or unity of men and nature. The Dao or Tao in Chinese Martial Arts is nothing new but traced back to Zhuang Zi's time he seemed to differentiate dao and the practitioners of dao yin. In the preface by Ai Yukuan (Sun Lutang 1915) suggested that "in ancient time there are people practice the arts of breathing and dao yin which tended to tempt people to behave improperly, and the saints or wise men disapproved of them".

    People here seem to know a lot about Dao or Tao, thus it is possible to cary out some sort of discernment of Dao and Dao Yin in martial arts before verifying the Dao of Tai Hang Dao Gong in terms of theory and practice.
  17. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    I guess you're right that was a poor choice of terms. 'Taoism-influenced' is probably better, since it does have a sort of endemic quality pervasive throughout different cultural facets (cooking, martial art, poetry, ethics and so on).
  18. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Excellent can you point to the documentation for Tai Hang Dao Gong that contains that saying so we can see the symbols themselves and investigate alternate translations? You said it yourself "my translation" so I'd like to proof that if I may. Where can we read it?

    I don't doubt what you've said about 'wise men' disapproving of Taoism, in most contexts we are talking Confucian scholars but as I have indicated, this could be due to the fact that many Taoist scholars of note were quite flippant, irreverent, and satirical in nature when dealing with their Confucian counterparts. It's easy to see why their counterparts would do that right up to the 20th century, they are scolding those whom they believe are disregarding the structured way of life and instead laughing and submitting themselves to the whims of the Tao that Must Not be Named (that's a bad joke sorry), not to mention daily sweating and breathing exercises.

    Philosophically the Taoists were considered quite radical (and still mystical and a core part of society) by the power structures of China over a thousand years. Eventually like Buddhism its influence took hold in almost everything. Still the point about the Chinese martial arts not necessarily having standout Taoism elements makes senses and is well taken because it's certainly at least it seems to me not a core competency for a martial art, which is at its core a functional skill (not just a philosophy of the mind, or a way to look at nature and so on).
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2016
  19. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Try the following links for published materials:

    太行意拳 - 360Doc个人图书馆
    2015年1月5日 ... 太行意拳是一门很好的拳种,集武术、内功、养生为一体,以道家理论为指导,以站桩行 拳为实践。动作招式简单易学。练拳时不刻意追求,不讲究一招几 ...

    通过新浪微盘下载太行意拳养生功.pdf, 微盘是一款简单易用的网盘,提供超大免费 云存储空间,支持电脑、手机等任意终端的文件存储、同步和分享,是您工作、学习、 ...
  20. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Those links don't seem to work unfortunately but maybe instead you could post the specific hanzi that express 'balance through imbalance' and we can take a closer look? And as much as I would love to sit and translate whole documents assuming we could get the links to work or the entire text in front o us, can you be more specific? :D thanks ahead of time

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