Tai Chi Self-Defence

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by brood82, Apr 16, 2006.

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  1. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned


    Its easy saying that you think its better not to get hit. The key is to put yourself into situations (any I am not talking about one step sparring or semi contact) where someone is really trying to hit you, then not to get hit.



    Generaly, the point where you have closed and have made contact.

    Lots of differant levels here so the catch all term 'clinch' is probably a good one.





    I don't even try to follow what you disagree with anymore.

    I do though, question how much of any thread you read, before you disagree.





    I question techniques for selfdefence.



    Indeed.

    1)
    So, you have a guy who puts a white suit on twice a week and stomps up and down a church hall going 'KIA' and punching into the air.
    Now and again he 'spars'. Sparring is really cool, he gets to do his tornado 360 kick as much as he likes and its real safe because Master 'Flash' Brian stops the action after every point and every blow is stopped well short of its target, to do otherwise would be damgerouse, every one knows that Karate punches are killer.

    2)
    Another guy goes to a differant class. He dosent punch the air, just bags and target mits. He spars a lot, sometimes he gets hit in the head. Thats ok, the first time it really shocked him and he looked to the coach because he wanted to stop, but the other guy just hit him again. Now he dosent get hit much because he knows how to avoid it. When he does get caught he is no longer shocked and just deals with it.

    There is training and training.

    First off I think that both of the above have an equal chance of injury. Guy 1)is probably going to have shagged knees when hes older, while guy 2) may or may not get a broken nose.

    Both of the above think that they are well trained, but guy 1) thinks hes a killer and guy 2) has a pretty good idea of what he can and can not do.







    Self defence=

    Knowing that dispite being the best UFC fighter in the world, 6' 5" tall, 19 stone and carrying a gun, you should not get so drunk that you cant see, then walk home alone semi comatose along the tow paths of Birmingham, singing songs offensive to the local football team.

    Self defence is getting the Taxi.

    Its knowing when your in danger and avoiding it.

    Self defence is not a serise of techniques.

    Most people who think they are doing self defence are just learning how to fight. The two (as we have already established) are very differant.










    I should spell check this, but I cant be bothered.
     
  2. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Fair enough - an 'imo/e' would help as that is an 'opinion' rather than a 'fact' tho... :)
    Holding and neutralizing are also good words, but I see what you mean, thanx :)
    Well, what a coincidence.... :rolleyes: isn't it amazing the effect removing stuff you're prejudiced against from my profile has? (Perhaps you could modify my personal opinion of you by not having a personal attack on me in your profile, hmmm...? :cool:
    Any systematic or teachable MA/SD method is a 'technique' - you're being pedantic.
    Last time I looked this was Tai Chi forum. You're prejudices about karate are your problem imo
    "He is now well on his way to becoming a meathead who will be crippled in his later years..." hooray! :rolleyes:
    You can say that again - both methods quoted above are EMA, not Taijiquan imo
    Not to mention all the other stuff Steve mentioned earlier, plus an aggressive attitude problem and an ulcer maybe...
    Stereotypes - depends on too many factors to go into here...
    Riiight - I'm grokking it now - erm can I just say "pants"? imo! Partially true - but self-protection 'techniques' are part of SD of course!
    'imo' :) disagree
    :Angel:
     
  3. oldyangtaiji

    oldyangtaiji Old Yang Taijiquan

    Ki Chuan Do ( www.attackproof.com ) uses the essence of Taijiquan! It is the Taijiquan for self-defense. A RBSD (reality based self defense) of Taijiquan. It is easy to learn and very effective. One of the best systems (if not the best) around. :)

    Here are they new "motto": "In a deadly attack, how do you pick the "right" self-defense technique to save your life? You can't. No matter what your martial art style, techniques are NOT the answer."

    KCD is a free-form (natural movement based) self-defense. A (reality based) self-defense of the future! :Angel:
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2006
  4. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    You have changed your profile? If you change you profile, it should be to 'low profile'.




    OOOO just gimmi the chance to modify you.


    If it involves physical trying to injure an attacker or to stop an attacker injuring you then its a fighting technique not self defence. By this point self defence has already failed.



    Again, arguing for the sake of it.

    Being a meat head is not measured by the fact that you spar or hit a bag....hell if we believed you with all your 'I only spar bare knuckle, "its the only real way"' we would think you to be a meat head!


    Because clearly, TCC is the only r33l self defence!


    Rollplay as much as you like. You can only get so much out of 'pretending' to train.

    I know the aggression scares you now, but it will really scare you when its not 'friendly'.


    I do not care how many ways you show a 9 stone woman how to get a 17 stone man off her, the self defence aspect has failed. You are now showing her how to fight.
     
  5. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned


    HEY Sandus, Isn't it against the rules to sell product in this forum?
     
  6. oldyangtaiji

    oldyangtaiji Old Yang Taijiquan

    Liokault - I am not trying to sell nothing!!! :confused: Puting a link to a commercial site is nothing wrong! The system of John Perkins is aviable only by that web-site.
     
  7. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    Via books and DVD....product.
     
  8. oldyangtaiji

    oldyangtaiji Old Yang Taijiquan

    More than 90% TJQ schools today are only "new age" dances! :eek: The others 10% are mainly shools that pretend to subordinate your life to the TJQ (if you want to use THQ as self-defense)! :rolleyes:
    KCD is what I found after years of searching (I practiced various MA) and in my opinion it has the best proportion between effectivenes and simplicity! A few minutes a day (or hour a week) are enough to defend you better than with hour a day of some others martial arts. :D
    KCD uses the "Close Combat" form and the TJQ principles.

    Liokault - I didn't mentioned any book, DVD or other product! :bang:
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2006
  9. tccstudent

    tccstudent Valued Member

    This is such a happy forum :D

    Maybe too much external sparring has made some folks a bit cranky :p

    I sparred a lot as a younger guy, but I really don't think it helped me be a better fighter. I think being a great fighter is something more inate in most people and the others are just doing more harm than good (like Steve said). Let's not forget, that at some point in our training you want to use more mind/yi/intent than muscle, force, and hostility training. If you get stuck in the hard, you may never get there...

    I'm so glad my body is still pain and ache free albeit a few extra pounds :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2006
  10. oldyangtaiji

    oldyangtaiji Old Yang Taijiquan

    It will be interesting to see the TJQ masters to fight with masters of other MA. In my opinion, today very few masters can defend the honour of TJQ!!! Many today TJQ masters live on the credit of the past masters.

    In the fight there is not internal and external, but only a winner and a loser.

    TJQ as is teached today has only a limited applicability for self-defense. This is also a reason for a rapid fall of the reputation of TJQ in the last 50 years. :(
     
  11. tccstudent

    tccstudent Valued Member

    Yes, partly true, but it comes more down to the practitioner than the art itself. TCC as a martial art is not dead at all. TCC is a complete martial art, but if you don't train it that way it won't give you what some are looking for. OTOH, just practicing everyday (martial or not martial) is still good for your health, flexibility, stress relief, balance, and general strength.
     
  12. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    All that hard training's really helped you keep your cool, hasn't it? :D What a lovely chap you are... :cool:
    Great response under pressure.... anyone else impressed? :rolleyes:

    Okay meanwhile back on Earth....

    Okay - here's my definitions:

    Self-defence: theory, philosophy, attitude plus simple, practical, effective techniques that prevent, stop, neutralize or enable escape from unwanted conflict with one or more aggressors in an everyday setting. Basic attitude is one of avoiding antagonism and conflict - always moving towards peaceful resolutions whilst protecting one's space and inalienable right to be unmolested.

    Fighting: theory, philosophy, methodology, attitude, plus techniques involving everything from simple/basic to extremely sophisticated/exotic to win in chosen conflicts with one or more combatants who also choose to be in conflict with you - generally, but not always, in an artificial and/or controlled environment. Basic attitude is one of mastering antagonism and conflict, competing and always seeking to dominate people and situations that are threatening.

    (Fairly obviously there is a cross-over zone between these two definitions - but I still think they are two distinct idea(l)s)

    Sport martial arts: confused people acting out deep-seated insecurities about their sexual identities imho but each to their own I say :cool:

    :Angel:
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2006
  13. oldyangtaiji

    oldyangtaiji Old Yang Taijiquan

    Tccstudent - TJQ is one of the best MA around, but the problem is that are very few masters that teach it as a MA.
     
  14. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Same with Karate, TKD, Judo, Wing Chun, and a whole host of martial arts.

    There are people out there willing to teach the techniques though in each respective style, and even people who want to learn them.
     
  15. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

  16. tccstudent

    tccstudent Valued Member

    :) i agree Oldyang, but there are schools that teach with a martial intent. It's just that they are getting harder and harder to find. My problem with this is that everyone keeps saying "tai chi isn't taught martially anymore," but few are doing anything about it. I know I try to practice my TCC with martial intent, if others don't do that then that is their issue to deal with if they so choose.
     
  17. Qasim

    Qasim Valued Member

    You're clinching in a fight for your life in the street, the guy's friend or friends come along and........?
     
  18. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    This argument is old.

    There are people who like learning how to avoid, hit, throw and lock opponents who are trying to do it to them, and who realise that in order to get better at these things past a certain point, they have to actually do them with training partners trying to do the same to them. Much like you have to get in a car and drive about to learn to drive, or get in the water to learn to swim (even though you might crash or drown!).

    There are people who think they can do this without actually.. doing it.

    There are people who don't care if they can or can't do this and do their martial arts for health and interest.

    There are people from the second two groups who think what the first group do is all too rough and machismo-driven (which they are entitled to think), but only the second group are being dishonest with themselves, and will only get to find out if they try and 'do it' with people who 'do it' regularly. Which they very rarely ever do.
     
  19. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    And?
     
  20. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Because it's unwinnable :bang:
    Good for you...
    btw.... Do you stab, shoot, bite, gouge, rip and tear each other as well? No - oh dear I think I hear your logical 'house of cards' falling down about now... :rolleyes:
    There are also people who think because they can they are a.)invincible b.)better than everyone else and c.)practising "the only r33l way"(TM) those people are no less deluded losers than the ones quoted.
    They tend to be happy and live peaceful lives too :) (I'm not one of them, but I mainly teach those people...)
    There is equal delusion in all quoted groups imo. You also missed out another group: people with limited MA experience who are basically sticking up for their charismatic class seniors in an internet forum.... :rolleyes:
    :Angel:
     
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