Madknight: Right teacher or right art for you at the right time, you'll get involved there and stop looking around (for the time being, at least). That's how you'll know. Meanwhile, try out anything you get interested in and leave it when you feel to. Don't worry, be happy... Mind, I have not read the blog, my answer is independent from that.
Hello Big John, Every Martial Arts has their advantages and their short comings. Not ONE martial arts covers everything. While I believe good Tai Chi should help your Thai Boxing and Judo, GOOD THAI BOXING AND JUDO ALSO HELPS YOUR TAI CHI. There are some very effective body mechanics in Thai Boxing and Judo that can help a Tai Chi practitioner understand the purposes behind some of the moves. I believe, ultimately if one wants to become an all round fighter, one should at least spend some time observing/absorbing other styles without prejudice. By looking at the "Fighting" from different angles one has a better chance to see the bigger picture and choose what suits your nature and your purpose. While I'm a Tai Chi guy, I observe and discuss with Thai boxers. I play with Aikido people. I learnt Taekwando before. I have experiences in Bagua, Bokken. I have a Sifu in Guangzhou who teaches me Kulo/Gulao Wing Chun. I just came back from Systema training (ahg! the pain! ). My ultimate goal is ME; and I know if I prejudice against anything it will make me blind and ineffective. Tai Chi? May suit some, and may not suit others. Same as Thai Boxing and Judo. But if you'd never try, you'd never know. Cheers, John
Where I train there is an elite Judo player - international level competitior, all over Europe - retired now, but still, just doing a few movements with him was enough to know that that skill set he has is astounding, and I have to say, in my view and experience, far beyond most people who do taiji - and I mean most, as in, I don't know if there even is ANYONE who does taiji who is capable of standing against that level, just like, grappling to grappling, throw to throw, root to root. For most people who do taiji, and probably every taiji guy in this country, except possibly the odd guy from China, I believe it's fantasy to think you could seriously challenge people like that in terms of pure grappling to grappling. Their skill set is WAY beyond the average taiji level.
Hello John, i'm sure no one will disagree. <snip> the short answer, to my question is *No* you have no experience in both judo and muay thai...talking with them, does not count! so your statements and conclusions are faulty at best. agreed, full contact fighting is not for a everybody. To piratebrido and fire-quan, fine contribution to this thread.
Thanks to imperial and Fire for their replies. Both helpful replies Turns out I wont be able to try Tai Chi this week. Poker fundrasier for Kickboxing at 3 today so I'll be missing it this weekend. I'll be going next Sunday though.
Most taiji and kung fu people never bother to actually go and see what other people can do at a serious level. And then they don't listen to people like me, who actually have been out and done that. Instead, they attack the information that we're trying to bring back - it's like trying to explain to people that a tsunami is coming, while they just laugh at you and mock you and insult you - funny really, in a heart breaking way, heh. Instead of actually looking at how deficient most Chinese martial art training is, and adapting accordingly, they use a set of verbal techniques, lies, cover ups, cult mentalities, to simply cover it up. Here's one - internal martial arts are too deadly. The fact that you never see them being used effectively isn't a sign that it doesn't work - it's the opposite - it's actually a sign that they're UBER deadly. Didn't you know? It can't even be filmed - you can't even do it to the level of boxers sparring - people would die - it's simply impossible because it's too deadly. Yeah sure it is. WHy would anyone want to believe that, is my question? Me, I want to stay alive, so the last thing I want to do is build fantasies about non existant abilities. Why do they sit in their room, telling themselves that their martial art is so deadly it couldn't even be used for sport - one internal power punch and people's hearts will be bursting, and if they had to fight an MMA guy, or a judo player or a boxer their superiors 'root' would protect them, and their punch would be so powerful and full of whole body energy that it would crush their opponents. It's all nonsense. Just, people sat in rooms, nursing fantasies of being great fighters who are too deadly ever to test out whether it's true or not. And it's so tied up with their ego that they'd do ANYTHING to stop the truth from getting to their own brains. They think it's actually other people who have to prove that they're not deadly. They think that if someone else doesn't test them, well that's the same as them testing themselves. And they think that if they can put down the character of the person who doesn't believe them, well that's the same as them proving to the world that they are really good fighters. And they sit like that, in their room, and they say 'hey I'm great' and they issue false challenges to anyone who laughs at them - as long as they're sure that person won't ever turn up, in which case they'd crap themselves - and they say 'well where's your proof of greatness' to people who would never dream of claiming greatness like them, but just don't believe that they are great- and they think that that's all proof that what they do works. But just one serious 'tour', getting out there, sparring and training with serious fighters would shatter their illusions in seconds. And probably shatter their noses as well.
Back from poker now. Came in 4th place. Well from the discussion it doesn't seem like Tai Chi will do much for my other arts I'm currently in. I'm fine with that if I really love Tai Chi but after looking at videos and such for a while I'm starting to think that it's just to slow of a pace for me. I like the idea of doing forms and learning how to relax as I move and strike. It seems that speed is increased when your relaxed over tensed and that part is probably good for boxing, but then again I could probably learn that without having to take Tai Chi classes to. So I'm still going to try it out and we'll see what happens with it. Also have a couple options for Kung Fu places I'm still going to go and try out (I have another thread about this in the Kung Fu section). Thanks for taking the time to make such great responses guys
Everyone has different goals to achieve. Everyone takes different paths. Everyone has differnt levels of aggression. Everyone has different habbits of body control. Differernt people have different IQs. And different situations they need to prepare themselves to handle. If you like full contact, good on you. But others may choose something else because their needs are different. Because they are different. What works for you may not mean that will work for them too. A heavy broadsword hacks through all the opponent's defences. A skilled Jian (double edged sword) by-passes them. Both equally effective but completely different mode of operation. If I'm on a battle field, I would trust my broadsword. If I'm facing a challenger, I prefer my Jian. Cheers, John
Hello Fire-quan, In the old days people are very secretive about their martial arts. These days, with all the freedom of information you would be surprised how open minded real Taiji and Kungfu people are. Of course, I would agree that some are still kidding themselves, and some are in some form of self denials. If you are telling me the tsunami is coming, I'll probably say to myself "hey, I better run up the hills with this guy, in case he knows something I don't. I can always turn on the radio once I'm up there." Cheers, John
Madknight - congrats on the 4th place! Meanwhile, I also do Kickboxing, Tae Kwon Do, Grappling, Sparring and Tai Chi.. I LOVE IT!! I believe you will find it beneficial to your endeavors. You will learn breathing, and controlling breath - movements, and control of your movements, develop great muscle strength and the ability to utilize explosion of movements. I don't think you can go wrong! While I love all the martial arts, I really internalize Tai Chi - and I believe it helps my other martial art studies, as well as life and health. The best thing you can do, is what you are doing... which is try it.. and see what you feel is best for yourself.
John, wait....you are all over the place. let us take care of ur original answer, then we can discuss other things... you wrote, "Apart from improving rooting, subtleness etc.; IF you find the right teacher, Tai Chi can help you understand the connection between your awareness, your subconscious and body control (Shen Yi and Qi), which can help you in virtually any activity that requires good body control" the you go all esoteric "plus t high level, you would also understand the connection between the opponents thoughts and actions which give you an edge in terms of stagnating the opponent making him less effective." and now the non sense above, above. the question still stand; how do you know that he wont get the same or better results, from kick and judo? the question is simple one.
Big John, I think I've made my points very clear to everyone. I am sorry I couldn't make it any clearer for you. I'm not interested in arguing. You have chosen your path, let Madknight choose his own and enjoy himself. You have a good day. Cheers, John
the only thing i see is, you trying your hand at being intelectualy disonest so am i....a simple "i don't know" would have done the trick, really. instead of jumping hoops. but you do it so well... like here below you write; "You have chosen your path, let Madknight choose his own and enjoy himself." remember, it was Madknight who asked for information.. all i did is give him advice, never did i tell him what to do, like your impling. like i said, you should try being a little more, intelectualy honest Cheers, John[/QUOTE]
Not esoteric, simply a skill that takes a long time to gain any competance in. Known in TaiJiQuan as ting jing.
Thanks for the congrats It's nice to see that you've found it useful with some of the same things I'm doing so maybe I will to.
Thank you Carys. It's pretty logical really; In any confrontations (street fight, war, debate, cooperate take over etc), winning is based on how good and solid you are, and how well you utilize the opponent's weakness, and how to confuse the opponent and take away his ability to compose his thoughts and actions. To do that, one must understand your own self, then understand the opponent. In fighting, it is no different. Nothing esoteric, just a logical approach. Our opponent is at his strongest when his thoughts and actions are united and clear. So we first learn to develop our own power and techniques, then learn to fight the opponent's body, actions and thoughts. It is not unique to Tai Chi; but I do find some martial arts have a smarter approach to this than others. Cheers, John
Yeah, well, hmm.... I find myself so very torn. On the one hand, I love glorious Quan deeply, and I really, really want to believe that there is a level of profound taiji ability that stands strong with the other combat arts. On the other hand, I understand that that's not really the right way of looking at it. It's not about 'arts' it's about training methods. Krav Maga is intended to be full on, no nonsense pure self defence training, but there are plenty of unconvincing Krav Maga videos out there. What's the difference between the convincing videos and the unconvincing videos? Or, more relevant, what's the difference between the training methods of a convincing practitioner and an unconvincing one? The primary issue with taiji, as I see it, isn't the art, but the training methods. There simply is no way to get straight answers out of people as to the efficacy of the training methods - people seem SO willing to 'show' you how effective they are, by inviting you down, but then SO UNwilling to just damn well demonstrate once and for all to everyone that the training methods really are useful. I can't understand it - it's like, so called internal martial arts teachers are SO eagre to invite anyonbe who doubts them over for a 'lesson' - well if they're that eagre, and that open, why don't they let us arrange some serious challenges for them? In fact, we don't even have to arrange challenges - we'll just get entry forms for the local Cage Rage. Otherwise, why shouldn't I do cage fighting training - I can see that that works, that it builds effective skill sets. What I want to ask - I already know the answer - but what I want to ask, and bring to light - is why I have to 'believe' in taiji, Xing Yi, Bagua, etc.- why do I have to have 'faith'? What is it with those arts that means that no one can ever demonstrate them in a serious challenge, everyone ELSE simply has to have faith? Or else, it's always in some way beholden on the audience to prove what those teachers say - why is that? If a teacher says they are really fight effective, why do I have to prove it for them? So what it is about taiji seems to be, a, is the training method worth spending all that time on? And if it is, how will I know before hand? WHere can I look at someone who has achieved the result, and say yeah, that's a worthwhile skill set. And b, as ever, it does rather appear that Yohan's Law is yet again proven true: yes of course taiji can be effective, as long as you have a good, basic grounding in judo and boxing before you learn it!
