Tai Chi in addition to another style

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by Daniel-san, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. Daniel-san

    Daniel-san New Member

    Does anyone here study Tai Chi in addition to, say, a hard style MA? If so, has in helped overall?

    Also, I'm assuming Tai Chi would help me with some sore shoulder joints that I have been experiencing lately. My doctor told me I have some Bersitis/Tendonitis in my joints. What do you think?

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2006
  2. tcgohan

    tcgohan New Member

    I'll say this, it couldn't hurt. The only ppl who might get hurt doing tjq will have spinal or severe knee problems, and tjq practice will likely help your shoulder - imho. As for helping your MA, good TJQ practitioners continue to dish out until they die. Try asking Likolaut, I think he does Muay Thai and Wudang style TJQ.
     
  3. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    T'ai Chi is used as an adjunctive training in various levels of depth by many practitioners of other systems.While commonly found amongst practitioners of other CMAs,a non CMA practitioner of note is the famous Shotokan master,Kanazawa,who from what I have understood over the years,studied with some seriousness and has some level of skill.Some will just learn some forms for reasons such as you mention,others will undertake a more serious study to develop some real TC skills whilst still remaining primarily commited to their "mother" system.I've personally taught instructors of Hung Gar,White Crane,TKD,various Karate systems,etc.They thought it was worth it.

    Even if you are just studying for health purposes,try,if one is available,to find a teacher with at least some decent push hands skills instead of just a form only practitioner.The more overall knowledge the instructor has,the better for the student.That said,even if you can only find a form teacher,if they know proper alignment and body dynamics, even at an elementary TC level you can receive much benefit.I must stress,especially in regards to your joint problems,they MUST know and be able to communicate the alignment and dynamics.Someone who took a quick TC course for a few months or a year or so may not,if they have no other kind of experience,be able to do this.TC can be very hard on your knees over time if not executed correctly.Don't wish to scare you off,but there are a lot of TC instructors who need an education,you might say.Ask around among other MAs if they have any idea who may be someone in your area with a bit of decent knowledge/skill.
    TC is,when taught and practiced correctly,an excellent therapeutic practice as well as good supplemental training to your main system.Hope my wordy answer helps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2006
  4. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    I also do JiuJitsu and Judo as well as Tai Chi Chuan. Although I do Judo and JiuJitsu in addition to my Tai Chi Training, if that makes sense. I don't go to those other classes and think as a Judo person or such, but as a Tai Chi Chuan player looking to see what he can get from these classes. Basically just some extra training. From Judo it helps me manipulate another persons mass, and it is great for training and testing the sensitivity skills. JiuJitsu I get to practise the manipulation of joints even more, basically Chin Na, so it's extra practise.

    I had to make a deal with myself. I would always think as a Tai Chi Player in the classes, and I would get up about 6/6.15am and practise Tai Chi every weekday before work since my evens were full.
     
  5. steve Rowe

    steve Rowe Valued Member

    I've practiced Karate for 40 years, Iaido and Jodo for over 25yrs and Taiji for over 30 years. I teach Taiji to people all over Europe who practice a variety of other arts and I think it always helps their understanding of postural alignment, softness, power sourcing and mindset.

    The biggest problem for most karateka seems to be stiffness, particularly in the waist and thorax. Taiji should help your shoulder, make sure that you are able to determine the difference between the 'good pain' that will make you better and 'bad pain' that will make you worse - and always err on the side of caution when treating an injury.
     
  6. sparrow

    sparrow Chirp!

    I did Goju-Ryu karate for 3-4 years at the same school and with the same instructor, which I found very useful. I had not originally approached Tai Chi as a martial art, so it helped me to recognise strikes and blocks, etc. I now teach TC to older people from a health standpoint, although my normal practice does carry through to MA, and have a student who has just joined me who suffers from tendonitits, so it will be interesting to see if it is beneficial - it should be...
     
  7. Daniel-san

    Daniel-san New Member

    Thanks

    Thank you all for your responses. They've all been very helpful.

    Dan
     
  8. TaiChiFox

    TaiChiFox New Member

    Well, while I personally believe to really master TaiChi you have to settle for it it doesn't mean it won't mix. We have people from various other arts in our school and most of them do quite well I heard , improving both their TaiChi and their original art :)
     
  9. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi All,

    What he said :)

    I worry a bit about Steve's post because it contained accuracy, good sense and was helpful - I didn't realise posts like that were allowed :) :) :)

    All the best.

    Robert.
     
  10. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    I should mention that I came to Tai Chi from Shotokan Karate.
     
  11. SouL

    SouL Valued Member

    Well i study tai chi along side judo, bjj, aikido, wing chun etc... pretty much anything i get an opprtunity to learn and found it has helped me with my balance and just being more conciously aware of relaxing when doing things. e.g if im sitting at comp im more aware if they shoulders are tense so i relax them when previosuly i wudnt pay any attention to it.

    As far as doing tai chi for health reasons only is something ive never understood. It has great healing qualities but not good enouhg IMO especially in short term for people to choose it above something like say yoga for chi gong.

    Personally started doing yoga at home and found myself more relxaed during form also found that i felt better than from doing tai chi. I would definetly recommend yoga if you want to learn for purely health reasons above tai chi any day just feel its more effective at least from my limited expereince. Obviously people may disagree as their personal expereince may differ greatly but in my mind yoga is the way to go for health and fitness purely and tai chi for internal martail arts with added health benefits. Also alot of people i have spoken to have said they found yoga much beneficaly to their health than tai chi in short term. what you guys think?
     
  12. TaiChiFox

    TaiChiFox New Member

    Well, from my experience Yoga is quicker to develop good basic body alignment and structure while TaiChi opens it then. Now I'm at the point it only do it with TaiChi because I feel Yoga is somewhat closed off compared to TaiChi. But that certainly is not for everyone :)
     
  13. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Tai Chi is called Moving Meditation. This is a reference to the form, and a quite apt one at that. At the beginning it may not seem so as you are concentrating on many things. Where do my feet go? Are my arms right? What comes next? When you are more familiar with the form then this mantle takes place. Sure, you can be thinking about a million things while your body moves through the form, but in Tai Chi they talk about the yi, the intent. I believe this Yi creates the same results as meditation - using one thought to dispel one thousand.

    Some meditation talks about visualising the sun beaming down on you, others require concentration on your breathing, the point is you have filled your mind with this one task, pushing all others out. This is where the relaxation comes from. Same with form. You mind is completley focused on the form, your yi is maintained throughout.

    I believe moving meditation is a very apt phrase indeed.
     
  14. cullion

    cullion Valued Member

    He only trains in Wudang TJQ.
     
  15. tccstudent

    tccstudent Valued Member

    I am amazed when I meet someone who can teach Karate and Tai Chi at the same time. I would think that one would afffect the other? Maybe it depends on experience level, but every once in a while I practice a long fist form that I learned a while ago, and whenever I try to perform it, it doesn't come out right. My TC seeps too much into it, and that Shaolin "spirit" is just not there. I know there are a couple of such teachers here like Mr Rowe and others, I would be interested to know how you separate the two intentions within your teachings. If anyone would care to elaborate....
     
  16. steve Rowe

    steve Rowe Valued Member

    I have no problem. We have 8 principles that underlay both arts, so whilst they appear different on the surface, the more you study them,the more you realise that there is no difference. The 8 principles are:
    Feet
    Posture
    Mind
    Breath
    Internal
    Power
    Wedge
    Spiral

    Each word represents a field of study. There is only the optimum way of doing anything, therefore all differing roads have to lead to the same mountain top.
     
  17. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    tcccs-while there is some overlap,different body methods overall.even tho' say,good N Shaolin uses some of the same "internal" dynamics,such as lengthening tissue in your upper back when executing a rear hand.The late Kuo,Lin-ying taught HI,PK,TC as well, as N.Shaolin.Teaching/practicing a N. Shaolin system as well as an "internal" system is not uncommon.It's probably more difficult to keep the first three seperate from each other as they share more in common.R.W.Smith wrote of Hung,I-hsiang telling him to keep TC,HI,and PK seperate,but Smith said Hung's PK swimming body obviously permeated his execution of the other two anyway.He didn't say the same of Hung's execution of Shaolin or Okinawa-te.

    As far as how you keep "intention" seperate twixt two fairly different systems,I don't know how to say it other than you just do,it's a different flavor.If you're doing,for example,Hung Fut with strict TC body methods,you would no longer be doing Hung Fut.My own experience was that Hung Gar was more emotionally expressive,while TC is just,well,"cold" is the term I use.
    Keeping pretty different training methods seperate isn't that difficult.What really counts is how your body works in conjunction with another person.No matter how much Hung I did,as a general rule,especially at close quarters,I could feel my body executing as a TC boxer more often.

    So Steve,I would say there is a real difference below the surface,regardless how something looks on the outside.For example,a good Shotokan practitioner
    doesn't generate power the same way a good TC practitioner does,even though all combat systems share many of the same principles.How about the rooting principle?I've known some good Karateka whose level of Karate was certainly better than my level of TC,but while to a lay person their root would have been extremely good(it was),to me their root floated.Not just a more accute body alignment,but also different.I don't mean static comparison,I mean bodies in motion(sparring,drilling,etc.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2006
  18. steve Rowe

    steve Rowe Valued Member

    We use a 'soft' Sanchin kata at 5th kyu to teach all the internal 'codes' that are also used in taiji including rooting we also 'push' (kakie in Japanese) to test the root and alignment, we then employ those skills into Tensho at 4th kyu Naihanchi at 3rd kyu (this kata categorises the use of the jings) and post BB Seishan and Chinto.

    When you say 'good' karateka, my question would be good at what? Bearing in mind I teach a self defence oriented system, these skills are vital. Sports karate or something that 'looks' good is not on my list.
     
  19. daftyman

    daftyman A 4oz can of whoop-ass!

    Karate and tai chi? Kanezawa.

    He's the head of the Shotokan Karate world, and has studied tai chi in depth.

    From speaking to a high level member of the organisation in the UK, it would seem that the balance and whole body movements and fluidity of tai chi are of great help to karate. Karate tests your 'spirit' in ways that tai chi doesn't. The principles of one feed into the principles of the other.

    As long as you keep the principles alive you can do pretty much whatever you want.
     
  20. SouL

    SouL Valued Member

    My teacher manages to teach tai chi, wing chun and escrima. All are kept sepearte but at times can overlap especially between wing chun and tai chi since they share a few similarties. Quite alot of the form self defense seems very wing chun orientated and althouhg we do push hands seems more like sticky hands training.
     

Share This Page