There's much more depth to peng, lu, ji & an than what you see or feel through grasp birds tail in the hand form. It's a bit like the difference between 2D and 3D. needle at sea bottom can have a few uses as can snake creeps down. The common element I think you mention - 'siezing diversions'. Or - Tsai which is 'pluck'. In this aspect of use snake pulls(plucks) back and down where needle pulls on a vertical plane straight down. Kao, whether with a knee as in the follow up to snake (rooster on one leg) or a diagonal flying make for good combinations with tsai. 'pluck' and 'bump' go well together, in other words. I suspect there's a lot more depth to the 8 'gates' and their possibilities than people may realize. It can extrapulate to a whole fighting system when combined with push hands training. For me 'the real deal' is much closer to push hands training combined with the 13 postures methods than to anything else. for example the 32 training forms of Chen or the 37 forms of Yang. Whilst I think these can certainly be a valid and important training method - they are much more relevent to solo training. One of the reasons you feel the forms are somewhat seperated from the applications embra is that these forms are more like a vehicle for tai chi chuan rather that tcc itself. As you may know having read Dan Docherty's recent book is that the 32 postures in Chen have little to do with any original tcc inception, they are classical boxing posture found in other forms of Chinese Boxing too. Yang and Wu whilst sharing some of those postures take a small departure from that template. To one of 37 postures more found as the base for the martial arts practiced in Yong Nian County, Wu Yu Hsiangs and Yang Lu Chans home county.
Good answer! Your addressing my flippancy of expression with every-day training practicalities and relating it to the historical context - which is the main thrust of this thread - after quite a bit of irrelevant noise earlier in this thread's birth. I do read DD's books and articles, but the depth of the material he presents sometimes hurts my head - though I fully appreciate that he is doing a good service by making this material digestible.
Interesting thread I am sorry, but i must disagree with you on this. Besides just offering understanding of shape, posture and spinal alignment, the Taiji hand forms also allow us to refine each posture, understand point of balance and transitional balance through movement, as well as reaching the point of effortless movement without muscular tension, when the muscles are pliable without being rigid in any stance or posture. It is one of the best throwing techniques if applied correctly. It is also one of the best leg stengthening and stretching exercises one can do, plus it has the added benefit of opening the "kau" area, increasing flexibility in the hip joints, which allows for improved transfer of power from the legs through the waist area. In an earlier post you mentioned Grasp Birds Tail, i would recommend you try and source a book , Fu Zhongwen 's Mastering Yang Style Taijiquan , translated by Louis Swaim , Master Fu dedicates 10 pages explaining the intricacies of Grasp Birds Tail, from the rotational action of the Radial and Ulna bones through to the Jin points and their dynamic movement through the postures.
