I am considering getting into double fan forms, but I do not know whether it is acceptable to use a mirrored pair of fans, or two normal fans. Does anyone have any advice?
Not sure what you mean my mirrored pair of fans. I would imagine that you need to use two of the same size and weight- color is personal preference. There is an awesome double fan form in my Federation, but my school doesn't actually teach it. I MUST learn this form somehow, someday. I keep bugging my Sifu to get it taught when our GM comes down for seminars, but so far no luck. Our Sifu really doesn't get to decide what is taught anyways, that is decided higher up or hierarchy. I WILL find a way to learn this someday! I love this form! Here are a couple of clips of the form I am talking about. I note that both people here use identical fans. The first clip has mondo huge fans. The second clip shows the standard fan size we use in other fan forms for both CLF and TCC. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdQ-7EBoHPc"]Tai Chi Double Fan - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1berWvfRFw"]Tai Chi Double Fan - YouTube[/ame]
Is this for a competition? Or for general training? I don't 'do' fans, but I can't imagine that the style will matter. My advice would be, forget fan forms - but that's my advice
Fan forms can be fun! I know one I am not too fond of, but the Wind Chasing Fan form is great. These are both single fan forms. Fan forms are far more practical than say Gim forms, spear, sabre, or many other weapon forms. The chances are that you can actually use a stick or something stick like in a real situation over these other weapons. Plus, one can carry a fan where a stick would be confiscated. It isn't recognized as a weapon by most people outside martial arts. For example: I carried a fan in my carry on luggage on a plane. Keeping in mind, for those that don't already know, the open fan is for flash and style and art, in practical application the fan is kept closed. It is essentially a glorified stick.
It's for general training yes, but with aspects of dancing and fun ^^ So, why would you say to forget fan forms? I mean that, there are 'left-handed' and 'right-handed' fans. The manufacture alters the direction that the ribbing is done. It also means that when opened, the L-R fans,are mirror images of each other. like so: My original question was, whether having identical or L-R fans are supposed to be used for the techniques? Glorified, and disguised stick. Though that's not why I wanted to learn the techniques hehe
Oh wow! I had no idea they made fans for both sides! That is neat! We do learn one fan form on both sides. It takes a little getting used to, but I can open a standard fan with either side. I suppose one can order a fan like you say, but it is most certainly not necessary.
No problem and Thanks. You've answered my question, I had not considered that one could learn both sides, but then again I'm only a beginner ^^
In my school curriculum, we learn the 24 hand form on both sides, the 32 Gim on both sides, and the Plumblossom Fan form on both sides. As I am left handed, I get a bit of an advantage when it comes to that second side. But then again I start off at the disadvantage of starting to learn everything from my weaker side. It takes me longer to learn, but I figure in the long run, I am developing my weak side more thoroughly overall than most right sided people. In my external art, we only learn forms the standard right sided way. Although some with injuries have learned the other side. My instructor had to learn a Dahn Do set with her left side due to a chronic longstanding wrist problem on her right side.
I think that, in this case, 'practicality' is subjective. I would say that the benefits gained from a Jian, Dao, Gun etc form, in terms of strength, power generation, grip etc would exceed those gained from practicing a fan form. These are qualities that can easily lay over into empty hand fighting. Agreed, but techniques from Jian, Dao, Gun etc could be adapted equally as easily to fit a shorter stick. In the same way, you could carry a ping-pong ball on a bit of string as a whip - not necessarily going to get you arrested, but I wouldn't count on it as a weapon. Also, historically, the 'fan' was a folding metal blade;
Because, I personally, would rather spend my time doing something else. I see very little value in learning another set routine.
I was talking about direct application, not side benefits that come from training with weapons. I do agree with you on those other benefits though. But what I meant in my original post was I can pick up a flashlight or a stick and use what I learn with a fan. Less so picking up something and using it as a gim. Yes, some things can be applied, but picking up other things as a gim isn't quite the same application because the odds are that what you pick up won't have a slicing sharp edge like the gim. Bludgeoning someone with a stick isn't the same as slicing open their wrist. Gim is a finesse weapon, stick isn't. Some, but certainly not all applications from such different weapons will carry over.
So where you are learning doesn't have a curriculum? You get a choice of what to learn? Hmmm, in general, I would say you should learn how to use a single weapon first. Learn a single fan form, then move onto a double fan form. It is hard enough to learn the basics and principles with one to start off with.
I think in this instance, I'd be looking at improvising Dao techniques rather than Jian, when looking at using a blunt weapon like a stick etc. The hacking/slashing techniques can be equally effective as bludgeoning attacks. I might equate the application of a fan to than of a kubotan - I don't see the spine of a fan being long enough to strike with, but to 'poke' or apply some degree of leverage.
Just curious Dan Bian, have you ever trained with a fan? Or a stick? (stressing- just curious, no offense meant by my asking.) It gives you more extension than an open hand. You most certainly can strike with it, in addition to poking. And the basic mechanics of striking with a fan and a longer stick are the same. In CLF, we learn a hand breaking fan form. Certainly, we learn more strikes to more area's like the hand or temple compared to say the ribs than with our stick form, I wouldn't necessarily go for a rib strike with a fan as easily as with an actual stick. The fan is usually lighter and this does make some difference. But I think what I have learned with fan forms has helped me with my sparring with a longer stick in CLF. As no other person in stick fighting class currently studies TCC, I'll take that advantage. Since I need it going against far younger and faster opponents most of the time.
I've never trained with fan, but have done a little short-stick in addition to Dao and Jian. I also played a bit of kubotan in my school days. I can imagine that holding a stick would give greater extension than an open hand - my point is, that I can't see a collapsed fan being of sufficient length to strike, as one would with a stick (in a bludgeoning type method) - but rather to apply penetrating force onto a specific point.
Another useful thing I have learned with my CLF stick fighting, that I could cross over into a fan is to use it to disarm an opponent. One can have part sticking out the butt end - the side of your pinkie and use it as leverage. I have had pretty good success with it in stick fighting and could easily carry over the technique with a fan. Well, I have to disagree with you on this point. Any additional length can be used, and used in a bludgeoning type strike. Again, used more to whack the temple or hand or a sensitive area than say the ribs, but most certainly it can be used efficiently in a bludgeoning style strike. and the application can be carried over from a fan to a stick more directly than other weapons IMO.
Anyways, OP sounds like the application isn't the only consideration. For the art aspect, a fan, opening it and snapping it closed gives one a flash to a form that one cannot really get from other weapons. Some people train for additional things besides pure application. As long as application isn't ignored, I see nothing wrong with that.
That is very fair. I'll admit that I have never been able to practice using a jian (or equivalent) properly, when given a few chances. Personal preference imo. There is the 24 step form, and that leads to the more advanced classes; one of which does have a dedicated fan form class. I'll follow that advice.
Yes, but don't be too quick to decide. When I first learned the Gim/ Jian, I was not fond of it. Too weird and alien to anything I had learned so far. Moves were so subtle compared to the CLF Dahn Do. But my school has a set curriculum. I didn't get to set it aside. Years later, I have a great appreciation for it and it is one of my favorite weapons! Also the Gim takes a long time to learn properly. A few times is certainly not going to cut it- pun intended. As for the fan. I think what my school does is a good preparation for a two person fan form. Learn a form, then learn the same form on the other side. Then you will be proficient in each hand with said weapon. Then progress to a double fan form. It will be much easier as you will already have the mechanics down with each hand already.
