Taekwondo - Revolution

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Spookey, Apr 12, 2010.

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  1. Spookey

    Spookey Valued Member

    Dear All,

    I am interested to hear your thoughts on this...

    Originally a military martial art, Taekwondo-in all over Korea came through a bottleneck called the Oh Do Kwan. This was primarily due to Compulsory Military Service. Accordingly, there were so many martial artists that gave input, creating a true military martial art focused on hoshin-sool and combat application. Inclusions were striking, blocking, throwing, locking (bone breaking), choking, falling, etc.

    After garnering international attention and becoming both a major martial sport, as well as a marketing and income engine, the majority of Taekwondo and the public image thereof changed. With the invent and popularity of "Mixed Martial Arts" competitions the reputation of Taekwondo as a fighting art was all but lost in the early 1990's. Becoming viewed more as a "kiddie art" or "Combat Like Sport".

    Throughout the first decade of the millennium, more and more schools worked to include some ground fighting. Maybe introduced a BJJ program in their dojangs, incorporated more Hapkido or Judo into the hoshin-sool training, or some other implementation to garner the favor of the older teen and adult market.

    Additionally, we began to see a resurgence of the individual kwans in a way that kind of resembles "States Rights" (as if the Kwans are the individual states within the nation of Kukkiwon). Also, arts such as Teukong Moo Sool, and Gong Kwan Yoo Sool began to reach outside of Korea and touch the masses. Much of this via the internet, and other mass media portals.

    All that being said, is it possible that the Taekwondo being taught today in many dojang (with the additions of Hapkido, Judo, BJJ, Gong Kwan Yoo Sool, etc.) is bringing the taught curriculum back to where it began?

    Has Taekwondo "Revolved" as opposed to "Evolved"?

    The Revolution of Taekwondo, Haha...

    TAEKWON!
    "Spookey"
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Interesting post. It'd be very interesting to see more TKD schools that veered towards this route. I'm not all that up on the different Korean styles... but surely they must have some styles that have ground games... and throwing. Obviously Hapkido covers the locks and I think some throws... but yeah interesting if this happened.
     
  3. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    The Koreans are strong in judo. And their folk village replicas often have a sumo style ring.
     
  4. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Hey, there's nothing wrong with the techniques involved in TKD. I train with a couple of teaching TKD guys and they're both absolute murder on the feet.

    The problem is only people. Those people may include a BJJ program, but that won't change the attitude or quality of the school. It's still the same people, just a new marketing ploy.
    Those that are shrewd enough to actually know fighting knew long before the MMA boom came about. I don't think anyone will genuinely change the tone of their training as a result.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  5. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    ahh would this be the Ssireum style of wrestling? Which often reminds me a lot of Sumo wrestling as well.
     
  6. Spookey

    Spookey Valued Member

    Revolving

    My point of thought is that Taekwondo (at least in some major circles) is seeking to become what it once was. A true to life, combat martial art.

    Has anyone seen this Re-evolution occuring in their gyms, or the gyms of others?

    TAEKWON!
    Spooks
     
  7. YoungMan68

    YoungMan68 Valued Member

    What I've tried to do is to consciously keep the techniques alive that I came up practicing, which makes me a bit of a freak because I don't actively teach and propagate Olympic Taekwondo. I know many of the techniques, but overall I find it unfulfilling. I stick with traditional Taekwondo basics, kicking, Palgue forms, free fighting, and self defense. I'm also Kukkiwon/ Chung Do Kwan certified.
    Unfortunately, I'm finding that many people who see me are unfamiliar with what I'm doing because the Taekwondo they've been taught is little more than a recreation activity. So in my own way I'm keeping the old ways alive.
     
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    http://johnswang.com/Korean_SC.wmv

    I'm not a TKD guy but I do have a question. Do you guys feel a bit harder to execute a perfect high kick (such as flying side kick, spin back kick, or jumping crescent kick) when you get old? Do you feel that old age may affect your kicking skill more than your punching skill? How do you solve this problem?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  9. YoungMan68

    YoungMan68 Valued Member

    I'm 41 years old and my kicking feels as good or better as it ever was. Once I get a proper warmup, I can do everything I've always done. Just have to watch my knee as I injured it last year kicking the bag. Other than that, everything's fine.
     
  10. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Thanks for that. Yes that is exactly the ring I've seen in folk village recreations. The kicks are harder when you get older. But this is a good reason to keep practicing them, in my opinion. You can't beat the aging process, but you can slow it down as much as possible. I'm even working in some yoga to keep everything working as long as possible.

    Think about it...how much does the typical adult jump? They don't. And pretty soon the body forgets it can. So I think the hard 'fancy' kicks serve a great purpose in that they are constantly forcing the body to do things it wouldn't normally do 'day to day'.

    As for TKD 'becoming what it once was'. My Korean master apparently was under Nam Tae Hi and our workouts have not changed. We still do the same format (including the SD drills). BUT what has changed is the population of the people doing them. They are older or kids. And that can make a big difference in how things are practiced. Get a group of 20 year old males doing a class format and it can seem 'hardcore' while the same class with kids and 40+ year olds can look less so. For TKD I think it is more about the population practicing it than any real change in class format (at least that has been my experience).
     
  11. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I increasingly want to have my guys get the kudo helmets on and beat the stuffing out of each other, including sweeps, takedowns and hip throws.

    I think that's pretty much original TKD.

    I'm having some difficulty implementing it across a mixed class, but it's got to be worth a go :)

    Mitch
     
  12. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    I know I've posted this before Mitch but here it is again:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fKeoOaAWVU&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Kudo Daido Juku 3rd World Championship, Tokyo, Japan, 15 november 2009[/ame]

    Lots of TKDesque kicks the Russians employ. Brutal knockout!
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'm having some difficulty implementing it across a mixed class,

    Split the classes man. You know it makes sense.
    I'd rather do one hour of focused ADULT training than two that had to be toned down for the kids.
    If your training/teaching/practice isn't going how you want it to..sooner or later something will give.
     
  14. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    The last TKD school I attended also taught hapkido, judo and was bringing in a BJJ guy to teach escapes.....
     
  15. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I think this is the case in many places, babysitting, child discipline indoctrination, sport. In SK today, TKD is a kid's sport, not much else. The KMAs are in a different group altogether, with TKD coming under the KTA. KKW & WTF. The only adults that are involved are the coaches or top players, as SK pays a nice stipend or pension to their Olympic medalists
     
  16. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes kicks are harder when you get older, as are many things.
    What is the name of your instrcutor who learned under Col. Nam Tae Hi?
     
  17. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    IMO all one has to do is get back to the roots of TKD being for SD, instead of a sport. Original TKD already included these other arts in it, like boxing, judo, hapkido, wrestling, karate, etc. It is a shame that many have just focused on patterns or sports competition sparring rules, instead of realistic free sparring & SD
     
  18. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    His name is Kim Hong Sik. He is listed under the 'original ITF pioneers' 1970s under Nam Tae Hi on this website:

    http://www.lacancha.com/tkdmasters.html

    Note I'm pretty sure he fell only fell under Nam Tae Hi after he came to the U.S. Back in Korea I believe he was a student of a student. Because he tells the story that his instructor was a Tang Soo Do blackbelt and saw one of the early TKD demo teams and said, "I have to learn THIS..."

    We're starting to learn more. He is older (same age as Hee Il Cho) and more given to reflection and lets us prod him a bit to tell us stories of Korea.
     
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    TKD is not accient. It was thrown together for a nation to rebuild its culture and national pride. The Korean government sent out many teachers who in turn certified and sent out many under-qualfied teachers, and these people became teachers and sent out other teachers, all for the sake of promotion and popularity to a point that most of it outside of Korea is diluted.

    The so-called revolution of TKD is to be expected as it now has to compete for under-quality and bad exposure.

    Of course, it has to do what it can to regain such, esp get on the "MMA Bandwagon"
     
  20. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I have news for you, inside south Korea it is diluted as well. It is considered a child's sport there & not a MA. Adults that want to train in MAs do MMA, Hapkido etc. The few ITF schools in SK do have adults, but those schools are few & far between. However in the other half of Korea, their TKD is considered a MA & trained that way & not really diluted like it is in the West of free countries for obvious reasons. (They do only ITF TKD in NK)
     
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