Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do Resources' started by Jackie Li, Feb 12, 2004.
No one beats Splinter.
Hamato Yoshi can
But he wouldn't.
Tae Kwon Do is only as effective as the person who fights ability to utilize it properly. Maybe you don't know how to punch correctly? In any fight I strongly caution about an overly eager desire to just kick your opponent. When you kick you better mean it (hit) or you will open yourself up to an defensive counter strike that will either catch your leg and sweep you down and then finish with a punch in the mouth (ko) or if you did one of those dumbass moves (work great if you connect) and jump up and spin and miss and then have your back exposed you might just get your throat cut.
This was an answer to the original post.
This thread is disheartening to people looking at this art from a newbs perspective. I have had so many legit dojo close down with in months of my joining, im down to Korean arts. My main goals are fitness and self defense. I don't drink, I don't go to bars, but I atleast want to be able to deal with basic attacks.
Guess im just going to have to see how this new place works out. If they are to sport then its off to the races to find yet another place to train. I cant stand generic mma training, as it does not address street needs at all.(weapons)
Meh, you won't find TKD much better in that regard I wouldn't think. With weapons it isn't that hard, snake wrap works on most big weapons, and almost nothing works against blades.
I took TKD as a kid... only for a few months though. I have sparred a few TKD guys and while the student will only be as good as the teaching (and how much practiced), overall I was not that impressed. That isn't to say that it wouldn't work vs. an attacker, but just from my limited amount of sparring with them, they have all kinds of holes in their defense and as SST mentioned, are open to all kinds of counters.
second this... IMO you don't have to worry as much about weapons as you do having multiple attackers, as people today are to chicken to just go man to man if they have an issue. If they can resolve that issue without violence, that's always the best thing, there are people however who just won't take no for an answer... especially one who is intoxicated or worse, meth or coked up.
Saved in blood and Chadderz.
Well looking at the training situation here in my area. The Korean arts are the only ones left that with good instruction.(just based on my observations) The town is filled to the brim with Mcdojo.
Im hoping I can find a new Judo dojo or failing that, maybe a sport bjj place.
Ok I'll bite. I'm currently only 8th kup as I only started this year but my master is 8th degree and my teachers black belts including 5th and 6th degree TKD ITF and WKU world championships. I'm pretty sure from your huge generalisation that your experience of TKD may not be fully representative of the art.
Of course as a near-beginner I still have only a glimpse of the potential TKD is able to offer but I'm happy with teachings thus far.
What town are you in man?
Although I don't want to start a "vs." discussion. I think you'll find a large difference between WTF and ITF. And although I can't speak to SIB's experience with TKD, from my own experience with both arts, the WTF guys were much more open and were easier to land attacks on.
The issue in my eyes stems from the WTF rule set; which favours kicks over punches. WTF is very much more sport than it is a martial art, and the rule sets allow for a lazier guard. In contrast of course to ITF which has a more kickboxing-light type rule set; thus permitting a more balanced approach.
If you find a less sport orientated WTF school, you'll be taken care of well.
I still maintain that you are worrying over the practicality of an art in a self defense situation more then necessary. Regardless what art you begin with, you will have to fill in the gaps to round your self out. The best way to fill in the gaps is by cross training in other arts but first you need to start somewhere.
I'm not even sure why I'm defending TKD, I hate kicking and everything about kicking.
Even the ITF ruleset is limiting though and breeds habits that will create problems outside that format. The stance that is so good for fencing with the lead leg has great difficulty standing up to low kicks, aggressive punching or tackles.
And I wasn't claiming that the ITF rule set is the end-all-be-all rule set for making great fighters. In fact I have huge issues with the way they spar, and that's why I'm no longer a member. I was just contrasting it favourable with the WTF rule set in a hope to explain SIB's experience with TKD to mjl, an ITFer.
Well yes, no, maybe so.
Unfortunately in the context of WTF TKD I would have to disagree with you; especially your more sport focused school. The issue comes from becoming too comfortable with bad habits, especially the lazy guard which leaves the entire upper body open. If one were to cross train in boxing, than this bad habit would be easily fixed. But most people would want to cross train in a grappling art, and then there is a lower chance that this bad habit will be remedied.
From my experience I think there are arts that are a good starting place (boxing, kick-boxing/MT, Judo, BJJ, etc.), and then there are arts which actually can set you back a fair amount; thus needing extra supplementary training to work out bad habits formed.
That being said if you like the sport, live your life, and enjoy the sport.
Chadderz, I live near Fort Wayne Indiana. The town is filled with ATA. There is 3 BJJ places I know of and am considering for cross training though. Their is 1 Tong so do Place and one hapkido place. My old boxing gym is still around, but its way out of the way.
The karate around me is of questionable lineage and most don't do full continuous sparring.
I know of 2 generic mma places, one is VERY expensive but probably legit, and the other was located at my former karate gym that just went out of business and is reorganizing under new leadership. So I have no idea were or when they are opening.
I know the KKW style of TKD has its faults but I am finding the instruction to be good and the class it self is a great work out and is developing my flexibility. Im a cross trainer at heart so ill find a way to fill in the gaps.
I you are going to pay extra to cross train anyway why not just go to the "legit" MMA gym in the first place?
Because I find generic mma to be boring. I did it for about about a year and while I loved the sparring rules, I did not enjoy the actual training. It just felt so generic and nearly boring.(not counting the conditioning aspect which was great)
Secondly the mma specific place did very little to develop my flexibility or kicking ability. I felt like our kicking was under developed and basic. Teeps and low round kicks were all we did. EVER. I did work out before and after class with our resident TKD'er and that helped me a lot but most didn't.
I don't really know how to explain it Hannibal, the training it self just felt boring. The pad work was all just variations of stuff I had already done. With the only challenging aspect being the lack of conditioning I had..
Now I may check out this mma place, but TBH im loving the Class structure in the TKD Place. Im getting tons of balance and flexibility work and working on a aspect of my skills that was lacking.
Secondly I have a fondness for deflection based defense as opposed to covering. I know how to use boxing style defense(thanks to my boxing and mma gyms) its just I don't see covering as a good defense for the street(or mma for that matter). I prefer evasion coupled with deflection be it forearm or palm. I would have just stuck to fma as it met all of my needs but that petered out as well.
Edit to add. The other part of the reasoning for training in KKW is a personal one. After the karate gym failed, my father asked me to at least TKD a fair shot. He was trained in exactly the same manner as this place does its training. Back in the day when he was much younger people often tried to beat him up because of his problem.(epilepsy im not sure why they wanted to attack him for that) so he ended up using his tkd training a lot. He even used it a few times after highschool and once when I was very young.(fighting off 3 guys who jumped im on a walking bridge in Chicago) I have spoken to more then a few people who knew him when hew as younger and they all attest to his skill in those fights.
I asked him about my reservations regarding KKW style sparring and self defense. He said that of the two SERIOUS fights he had been in, they felt nothing like sparring.(asked him about that, he said he had lots of little fights, but that two of them were serious risk of bodily harm self defenses) In fact he went so far as to say that his sparring did very little to impact his ability to defend him self. I asked him what did, and he said he got more from the drills and the step sparring.(with regards to Self defense) He said dueling(sparring, he called it dueling) was just for fun but in no way like a real fight.
I know none of that means anything.. All I know, is the man was in a lot of fights and 2 serious self defenses and using standard KKW training came out on top every time. It may just be my inner child still looking up to my father but I at least owe it to him to try it for a bit. In end i stand to gain regardless.
I hope that clears it up a bit on my reasoning.
That makes sense - If you don't enjoy it you shouldn't do it
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