Tae Kwon Do any Good on the Street

Right on TKDDragon! I absolutely hate it when I hear "70%" kicking. Last I checked it was Hand-Foot-Way, not somehand-MostlyFoot-Way.

 

understood that this thread wasnt intented to be about military techniques, was just answering another question about TKD being used by military and law enforcement

which is the same Kukki TKD. to me, if someone cant competently use TKD effectively on the street they come from a crappy school. same can be said for other arts that are

also susceptible to commercialism and low standards of training. TKD gets hit on the most due to its rampant bastardization and popularity. so people automatically paint

the entire TKD community with a broad brush of ineffectiveness which isnt always an objective look.

 

True Toki*. Whoever is at the top always gets criticized the most. Modern TKD's application for families and kids puts it at the top.

 

Should we bash the whole art? Self defense shouldnt be about the style, but the application.

As I had stated, I have observed TKDers win in some brawls. Could the main problem with TKD be the offset on how many people were promoted without good defense skill? Could it be, because TKD was so wide-spread to gain quick popularity, that this is those quick promotions as well as degrading of the art?

 

Not at all, I would say alot of comercial arts suffer from rapid promotions of unqualified people. TKD especially with the number of Schools and Students around the world.
TKD specificly has no crucible to test all the techniques and our ability to effectively implement them. What our tournament rulsets guide is where the art develops this is true in most arts.

 

Decades past since I had studied. I had three different TKD instructors at different intervals.

Each had another arts which complimented defense

For example, one teacher had Hapkido with his

Another had Yudo with his.

Another had Hapkido and Yuh Kwon Sul (a misnomer or hodge podge?) with his.

All had their defense curriculums very much separate from their "General TKD"

HOWEVER, as I had stated somewhere, TKD, or any other art, has to reform to current times. I can appreciate any martial artist looking to validate what they do as street effective. However, that said, I would think that situations change. So from a combative stand point, the overall course of study has to change also. I don't think any ONE art is "complete for the street". As I keep reiterating;, study many areas of combatives and change tactics in order to overcome adversaries who are also changing.

 

TKD does seem to have the label of 'McDojo' a little more often these days and having just returned from the States and seen the plethora of strip mall dojos I can see why.

However, to answer the original question:

In general, no. TKD is not useful for 'street combat' if it is taught in a purely traditional/classical manner - but you could apply that answer to many other forms of M.art.

IMO it's not an argument of 'it's the man, not the art' that should be questioned, it's a case of using techniques that are probable in preference to those that are possible, and in many cases techniques taught in various styles (specifically TKD) are simply not probable or advisable in situations of crisis.

Just my 2 euros worth

 

This would be my own opinion on the subject too. Not saying that there aren't techniques in TKD, like the hand, elbow or knee techniques, that wouldn't be useful. But it does leave out the vast majority of the kicking techniques. IMHO front kick, plus a kick targeting the knee, are the only ones that should be used in 'situations of crisis'.

Doesn't that beg the question, why have spinning/jumping techniques in the first place if they will not be used outside a controlled setting? Granted there are benefits, coordination, balance, body control, etc. But practically?

 

TKD training is likely to be most effective in ... a TKD tournement....

 

TKD training, I would imagine is no different than any other physical training for SD purposes. You get out of it, what you put into it. Any school, ITF or WTF that emphasizes sport competition, will by definition have less emphasis on SD. Therefore they may tend to be less effective than a school who has SD as the core focus AND trains under as realistic conditions as possible.

TKD deserves the poor reputation it has among martial artists concerned with SD - as most TKD training lacks a realistic SD approach & is not their focus. But before we go bash TKD & the many McDoJangs, please understand that they are simply giving their customers what they want! Which is to me, martial fun, TKD babysitting, or discipline building while wearing a TKD DoBok. So it is not really TKD's fault, but that of the customer, as the customer is always right & the customer is "the boss"!

Those adults who want SD - become customers of the few TKD schools that have a SD focus, or join another MA or
reality based SD training. JMHO

TKD schools rules or are much more numerous than other MA schools, because they are successful. They give their customers what they want & what they pay for, that is why they are all over the place. They just don't teach reality based SD as that is not what their customer base wants to pay for!

 

Sit I think the number may drop to less than half!
Original TKD or ITF TKD was as you know, devised first in the Korean Army for the SD & morale of soldiers. It has expanded to the civilian population all around the world thanks to these soldiers led by Gen. Choi. This TKD has 6 types of sparring. The problem is that few practice anything but tournament sport sparring, which BTW is not 1 of the 6 types of sparring & if they make an attempt to train in the 6 types of sparring, they do not know, understand what & why they are dojng what they are trying to do & not doing it under the required realistic settings. They also do not know about formal Hoosinsul & how it fits in & is supposed to compliment personal SD. in fact, many falsely think that formal Hoosinsul is the SD component!

 

spinning/ jumping techniques have practical use outside of a controlled setting, they are advanced techniques. thing is many simply dont have the

proper training and skill level to use them practically.

 

I agree with some of your post. But, why has it transitioned from the student being a student and towards that of a customer? Is it because the schools need the income to remain open, thus lowering standards to accommodate.

My students were never my customer. Because the moment they became my students, they and their families knew exactly my teaching methods and/or curriculum.

Thus,
I disagree slightly, that- IT IS TKDs fault. They set out so many upon black belt rank in order to open up so many schools.

I was in those early decades when TKD was rising to popularity. Just about everyone I knew was signing up within many schools in the areas. These schools were popping up everywhere, giving the remote, or scant other schools, per other arts, hard economic competition.

Then, as many years went by, people went looking for those remote, scant, other schools. People no longer wanted to remain with the vast majority

Now, TKD is suffering, "they reap what they sow"

I say, because of the income, yeah, go ahead and accommodate the students, esp the youth in such a manner.

HOWEVER, have a separate curriculum for adults without all of the flash, pizazz, and mythology. Invite or go forth and study other arts to bring into this separate curriculum.

 

In my many earlier years, TKD had curriculums of good defense. However, then they started to focus on marketing. How to get more clientele in. They did this by focusing on the youth.

 

What are some of the differences? I would suppose its gotten softer since you were a young(er) lad.

I was thinking the other day, its not so much that having young 'uns in it is whats watering it down, its pandering to their mums that may be the culprit. In particular, a certain type; the upper-middle class, white suburban American soccer-mom, to be specific.

For example, the place where my kids take their boxing is a hard place. They don't play Barney Beat-Down and all that truck with the kids. They work 'em very hard and the boys that box there are exceptionally mature for their ages and are very street. I can tell they're not used to getting any quarter and they don't ask for any. You need n't have to water the training down for 'em, I can tell ya that.

Nearly all of the parents who bring their young'uns for the boxing and jujitsu are fathers. In contrast, nearlly all of the parents who bring their kids into some of the Mcdojoish places I've been in are always in the upper-middle class white suburban mum group.

We managed to find a good WTF TKD school in the area for one of our kids and the percentage of mothers/fathers is about 50%. Of the mums that bring their kids to the lessons, I'd say the majority are Asian. They watch the procedings very intently, unlike the white suburban mums at the McDojo places that chattered amongst themselves incessantly. Interestingly enough, this TKD school is one of the very few we've found that is not a McDojo.

Is it just me, or is there an odd pattern here?? Anyone else noticed this?

Maybe its just coincedintal.

 

When is it practical to turn your back or jump? And why would there be a need for the advanced techniques, in your opinion, other than to increase the amount of damage that you are inflicting?

 

Do nothing but jab-cross and people are going to catch on really quickly. Not a Tae Kwon Doin but this guy is a pretty good example of nonsense paying off simply because it's nonsense. If you ever want to have an edge beyond your attributes and your fundamentals, you've gotta mix it up. Take him somewhere he doesn't really know and lead him into something nasty. Genki Sudo made his name doing this. He regularly wrecked people who maintained technically superior technique because he knew when he could get away with throwing away the rules and doing something nuts. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz2Onws4U14&feature=related"]YouTube - ‪Genki Sudo Highlight 2‬‏[/ame]

 

I'm not about to read through 36 pages of this thread to see if this has been mentioned, but self defence is part of the cycle of Taekwon Do and comes up around the 4th week of every month where I train. We don't use reverse kicks (or insert flashy move of your choice) for this component of our training, it consists of release from grabs, breakfalls, headlocks & bearhugs, being choked on the ground, knife defence and so on. Who in their sane mind would attemp a tournament sparring technique in a self defence situation?

 

How much time during that week do youse guys spend on SD? Is it realistic in your opinion. Sounds good from your description...not a lot of places (TKD) spend any much time on quality SD training.