Tackling a 4th Dan

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Xue Fang, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. Xue Fang

    Xue Fang Bluebelt

    For those of you who don't already know, last training session we were practising contact sparring and (lucky me) I got to go up against our 4th Dan blackbelt instructor. :eek: :rolleyes: :D

    Anyway. Needless to say I got totally beaten into a pulp. And he was going easy on me. Was operating at amount one tenth of his actual skill, in my estimation. He darts in, whacks me round the head before I know what's going on, leaving me with stars floating round my vision and my ears ringing, and then when I try to throw an attack he dances out of the way... really irritating. Finally I decide, right, if he keeps on evading when I go after him, why don't I pretend to hang back, wait for him to come in for another attack and then throw an attack as he's coming in? Sounds like a good idea. In theory. Why does theory never translate well to practise? Whenever I hung back, he'd hang back too and just stare at me and then beckon me forwards to come in and attack him, so I reluctantly move in with a side kick or something. Which he blocks and then kicks me round the head.

    He got in loads of shots, but they weren't at full power, or I managed barely to deflect it enough so it didn't really hurt. That was, until I got caught completely by surprise and he side kicked me, full power, right around the stomach/floating ribs area. I nearly went tumbling head over heels backwards and as it was I stumbled back several metres. Then he just kept on doing jab to my head, reverse punch to my stomach over and over again and never even getting the slightest bit tired, and I was getting more and more exhausted having to block this. I made the highly unwise move of launching myself straight at him and I got in close and just started turning his jab reverse punch back on him. Got a couple in the head and a few in the stomach. But I'm not stupid - I know he just let me do that.

    Um, anyway... I'm not here to have a moan about my instructor. Far from it. I know he was trying to help me. :Angel: But, next time I'd prefer to lose a little less crushingly than this time and show at least some improvement. :rolleyes: So. Let's talk tactics. Any advice for a 6th Kup tackling a 4th Dan? :D And what was I doing wrong? All criticism and advice is welcome. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
  2. Ives

    Ives Mokuteki o motte hajimeru

    Sounds like a nice experience.
    I'd try to go for the openings (if there were any). Maybe if he thinks you'll go for a roundhouse, go for the straight forwardkick (A little deceiving). Just act a bit, and try leaning alot. You can also ask him what would be wise to do. You are there to learn.

    Good luck!!
    (I'm not that experienced in sparring 4th dan's, so I don't know if my comments can help you...)
     
  3. Xue Fang

    Xue Fang Bluebelt

    Trust me, the only openings I could see were the ones he deliberately left open to try and encourage me a bit. If there were any accidental openings, then I didn't see them. Oh, I should probably tell y'all that this guy sees any attack coming and always finds a way to block it. He's virtually impossible to deceive. I dare not try any combinations, let alone spinning kicks, though whilst they do liven a match up a bit and sometimes catch opponents by surprise, I know I'd leave myself way, way open and Sabum would exploit this in a heartbeat.
     
  4. Another Muay Thai Guy

    Another Muay Thai Guy Valued member

    If there are no openings, or you cannot see any, create your own.
     
  5. oni_sensei

    oni_sensei Valued Member

    To be perfectly honest, don't try and beat him. He's 'virtually impossible to decieve' for a very good reason. Instead, try and learn from how he spars against you, how he counters techniques and uses his combinations. Take in as much as you can from the way he moves and catches you off guard, and adapt that into your repetoire. Figure out your weaknesses from the way he defeats you, then work on improving them.

    IMHO, a lot of people get too riled up about trying to beat the higher ups that they forget how they're being beaten in the first place. Know thine enemy, yo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
  6. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    That was a bit naughty of him - don't let him do this in future. If he beckons at you, beckon back at him - there's no reason you should give him an easy ride by playing his game how he wants it. Especially if he's better than you already. He was just giving himself an added advantage by making you throw an attack for him to counter.
     
  7. hux

    hux ya, whatever.

    yes, yes...

    *strokes beard*

    I'd have to say that you need to hit him more and let him hit you less...

    :D

    seriously - yer gonna have a hard time with this guy simply because of the experience difference. The last time I sparred my TKD instructor the only thing I had going for me was the fact that I went after him tooth and nail. 100% aggression. He was so used to people being "afraid" of him that it took him by surprise, I think. I guess I'm agreeing with Moosey - don't allow him to dictate the "rhythm"..

    He still pummelled me, don't get me wrong, but I think he did have to adjust his tactics a tiny bit...and for that I was pretty proud of me. :)
     
  8. Andy Cap

    Andy Cap Valued Member


    I agree. Fight your fight. Stay within your own comfort zone and get familiar with that zone. You should step out of that zone to learn, but thos times when you do, you should be working with lower ranks. You can take chances with the lower ranks and give them some sport while you hone your excellence with your instructor.

    The other thing that you really cannot change is the perceived situation. What I mean by this is that he is your instructor, and this gives him an edge psychologically. It sounds like he uses that edge as he should. I know that my instructor always seemed imposible to beat, yet he never worked out and was getting older all the time. By the time I was 27 I wa a tournament champion, but I couldn't touch my instructor. He efinitely knows his stuff, but beyond that there is a psychological barrier there.

    have fun.
     
  9. Xue Fang

    Xue Fang Bluebelt

    *groans*

    moosey - yes. I was sorely tempted to beckon back at him... but some psychological thing kicked in and I suddenly felt rather obliged to do as he wished... he is my instructor after all... do you think I should ignore that in future?

    hux - yup. You betcha. Are you kidding me? I have one year and three months experience. He has sixteen years and three months of experience. He was at the same level I am now, greenbelt, when I was one year old! :rolleyes: :D Its pretty much a given that I'm totally going down. I try not to get intimidated by the higher grades in my club but with Sabum its a little difficult. Though, I think you make a good point. The only time I actually got a good few points in was when I finally had enough of being pummelled, (rather stupidly actually) charged in headlong and started frantically battering him. Or trying to. I'm certain the hits I got in were ones he let me get in.

    Andy Cap - Do you think I should use his own tactics against him? I mean, the whole darting away thing whenever I tried to throw an attack against him. He's pretty hard to block, and difficult to anticipate... I might actually be better if I did that. Yeah, sparring against the lower ranks is fun. :D I'm so evil. :yeleyes: I usually just have my fun and totally pummel them. And then if I get tired I just keep blocking their attempts at attack and then kick them in the head a few times. Darn right he has a psychological edge. See above.

    Thing is, it got to a point in the match where he was trying to encourage me to attack him, but I just knew any attack I might try was going to fail and therefore just really didn't even want to try to the point where I was thinking 'I really don't want to fight you, if I had a choice I would never have got involved in the first place'. That's the kind of psychological hold he has. And then of course, whilst I'm all reluctant and hanging back and wondering what on earth I can possibly do to this guy, he whacks me round the head again. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    I used to fall for this all the time! :D

    Just give him a "I know your game" look and he'll realise that he's rumbled. Then probably have you for breakfast, but that's a different issue.
     
  11. Playful Giant

    Playful Giant Banned Banned

    Why do you want to beat him?

    To show him up?

    He sounds like he was being nice to you. The harder you go, the harder he is likely to go. You may end up hurt...

    I understand you want to progress, but give it time and practice. You will close the gap in skill level
     
  12. Xue Fang

    Xue Fang Bluebelt

    No, I don't want to beat him to show him up or anything. I just want to know how I can show him I've improved next time and learnt something from the fight and so thus am trying to pool everyone's ideas.

    Though, I must admit, I am scared of even trying make an attack on him someitmes as he often warns us that if we get in an opening and hit him, he'll hit us back harder. I think he's joking, but we can never quite tell for sure...
     
  13. Mr. Anderson

    Mr. Anderson Valued Member

    I think you should try what the title of your post states - just go out and tackle him. You will probably get a good lecture but it would be a good story you could tell the other 6th kups about how you just threw him to the floor. :eek:

    Seriously, don't try it, but for my part I have been sorely tempted to leg sweep someone or throw them when they are obviously better then me - or especially when it is 2-on-1 sparring.

    It sounds like you received a great lesson from a good MA practitioner - I always try to line up with the best sparrers in our Dojang for that Fery°rmaSon.
     
  14. cavallin

    cavallin kickin' kitten

    well, basically, i dont think it helps very much sparring with someone THAT much better than you, simply because you just wont spar the same as with somebody you think you can score on. so what i mean is, first get over the scared bit then try and work on it as practise. i know exactly how you feel, i felt the same when i sparred 3rd dan etc when i was a lower grade, i hate that feeling of worthlessness and like anything you try is just stupid and rubbish compared to him! i think your aim should not be to score on him (yet) but to practise various combos and see which ones are the best. a very good combo is side kick, use it to get in close by feinting or chambering up against his chamber, throw some punches in a blitzing manner then wack a back leg downwards kick in the end of it. works like a dream! but it probably wont work on him, but practise loads of combinations. throwing single techniques is useless. if you do end up throwing just one or two kicks, back out as fast as poss.
    and...most of all, ask him!! when you spar, ask him, "im clearly not getting anywhere here, please can you tell me some uselful tactics/combinations ect"
    im quite suprised he's totally beating you up. if i was him, i would try to help a little at least. but its very good practise.
    in a few years you can look towards beating him, or getting some points in. right now, just pactise your sparring. keep going and going and fighting, until one day bang! you'll get him in the gut by suprise or whatever.
    mmm hope that kinda helps!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
  15. hux

    hux ya, whatever.

    Man, I can't be laughing out loud here at work, they already think I'm a bit off. Somewhere there's an instructor who'll spar everybody but that one guy.

    :D :D

    I don't know anyone in my dojo who wouldn't want to do well against the instructor. I would strut for weeks if I was the one who gave him a knot on his head :) Maybe it's just a male thing?
     
  16. franksv

    franksv Valued Member

    I say spar with him as much as you can,keep training hard.You will find your way.
     
  17. G50

    G50 Night Owl

    When I used to spar a couple of years ago, I used to spar 4th-6th dans all the time. I'd say - keep your guard up, don't let them fool you, just keep on kicking, use all the strongest kicks, don't do too much or they will figure out your movements.
     
  18. Xue Fang

    Xue Fang Bluebelt

    moosey - Nah, he's an okay guy really, but he does exude a whole lot of confidence and intimidation vibes.

    cavallin - I don't feel worthless as such. Just that any attempt at counter-attacking him is pointless because he sees it all coming and blocks it so I sometimes wonder why I should even try. Oh he does help. A lot. But he makes very few comments during the fight itself, leaving you to figure it out yourself, and saving his comments for post-fight.

    On thing I'd like to ask everyone - is it even worth my trying any jumping or spinning kicks? Because on the one hand they have a better chance of surprise and are more powerful, but on the other hand would I simply be setting myself up for him to exploit an opening and give me a good pummelling?
     
  19. G50

    G50 Night Owl

    It's not a good idea to do jumping or spinning kicks, The opponent will have a lot of time to dodge the kicks. The kicks almost always will never hit the target. So, I don't recommend it.
     
  20. Gould

    Gould Valued Member

    Have you been with your instructor since you started Tae Kwon-Do?

    Reason being if you have been taught by the same instructor your sparring then he probably has taught you all of your sparring methods/tactics in one shape or form, so he can probably guess what technique your'll going to throw.

    I had the same problem when I first sparred my old instructor, he had taught em all my sparring drills so he knew what i was going to do!!.

    Maybe try something different to what anyone else does in your dojang, something he's not familar with.

    Saying that the worst thing I ever did in sparring in class was land a nice head shot on my instructor, He just opened up a whole new world of pain just to show who's boss!!
     

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