Still the best? ...

Your sarcasm was so witty. I congratulate you, you certainly shut me up.

As you probably have never trained in the Philippines, let alone privately with any Masters there, I will provide you with an example that everyone knows.

Angel Cabales had 40 plus instructors, and a dozen or so Masters of his art at the time of his passing. Only a handful, including his son Vincent, were shown the few remaining Serrada techniques, that he had been keeping from them, when he found out that he was terminally ill. His reasoning was similar to so many Grandmasters and Masters in the P.I.. He had kept these skills to himself so that he would always have the upper hand, should any of his instructor or Master level students turn on him someday. The only reason he passed these techniques on to a select few Masters that remained loyal to him until his passing was because he obviously had nothing to fear from them anymore.

I am pretty sure that these techniques are not taught in the general Serrada curriculum that is taught to the public, even instructors.

But you are so knowledgeable that you probably know these "secret techniques" that you do not believe exist.

By the way I'm sure you know that the Dog brothers offered to join the UFC shortly after its debut and were denied because what they proposed was too extreme. And I don't recall anyone ever using FMA in NHB competition, but oh that's right, Eye gouges, finger locks, pressure point releases, skin grabbing, and strikes to most vital areas are forbidden.

But why are NHB competitions relevant to this thread anyway. Try walking down the street in Tondo, Manila past midnight with a couple of American dollars sticking out of your back pocket and try some "No holds barred" techniques against three or four guys with knives, bats, and projectiles. I bet you'd be looking around for a weapon you could use.

Silly rabbit, NHB tricks are for kids.

 

Kabayan Kayumangi,
while it is true that there are Masters who do guard and reserve or hold back some things to themselves, FMA is not about techniques. It is a process or a methodology of training. At least the effective systems that I am familiar with teach you principles and methods that are combative. From weapons to emptyhands to weapons .That's why I like the methodolgy of our art. It's not a spoon feading method that teaches you technique by technique . It gives you pieces of the puzzle that you fill in so that you can come up with the picture yourself (techniques) and once you do, it's forever yours. That being said, let's not take away the intelligence of everyone else in the world. The fact is, FMA is taught by some Masters , those that are hardcore about it will figure out what may be held back by some Masters. You don't re invent the wheel, it's been done. You may see different versions of it but it's no secret. I teach FMA rather than safeguard of hold back I would rather make sure that those I teach do it properly and effectively to keep with the quality and effectiveness that is identified with the FMA. Holding back would only waterdown or pass on inferior quality and I would never do that to my art nor would it be right to do so to the practitioner who put their trust in you and afterall this is weapons and combative aspects of survival and to knowingly give false confidence in what they believe to be effective because you held back to me is immoral. I rather choose my students well and teach them or not teach them at all.

 

Very well said. I agree with you on all points, and share your feelings about the degradation of the art due to the secrecy that some Masters practice. But while the methodology of the FMA is the most important aspect of the art, and certainly the reason why it is so adaptable to such a wide variety of situations. You cannot deny that there are some unorthodox techniques that defy the normal conventions in the FMA. These techniques are usually so deceptive that there is no possible counter or defense.

I have been practicing the art for 25 years now, and I can tell you with confidence that some techniques that I have seen are so unique that it is very unlikely that anyone, regardless of skill level or experience, will come by the same conclusions no matter how long they search.

The fact that these techniques may die out with the last of the Manongs is an unfortunate reality. They may be passed down, or they may not. But if they are inherited they will most definitely remain secret.

Thank you for your reply Kabayan.

To answer Diego Vega's question;
As long as the Manongs and the Masters who follow them are alive to share their secrets, The Philippines will always be the #1 source of knowledge in the Filipino Martial Arts.

 

much better ( kayumangi check you pm)
yes I agree that there are stuff that Masters reserve just for themselves and that certain higher levels of practice leadng toward the spiritual and mystical are reserved for family or culture. As for unorthodox techniques , i think if you have been practicing the arts for years and years constantly challenging set dogma , comparing and evolving you may bump into the same realizations though. Many times in my training would I come up with some realizations that I am sure were made up on the spot and dicovered by myself only to find that it was easily found in the variations of drills, techniques or practice of the art. In Pekiti Tirsia Kali Tuhon Gaje reffers to this as the "thought provoking process" to be able to know your strengths and most importantly realize your weaknesses and find ways to counter them. Offense-counter offense-re counter offense.

 

I have experienced this as well, and many times when I have been shown techniques (that I have been instructed to keep to myself) those techniques were very similar in concept, if not almost exactly the same, as personal revelations that I have had.

But there have been techniques that I have seen that aren't remotely similar to any techniques that I have seen before in any of the FMA that I have come across. But that's what makes these techniques so effective, and is the reason why they are so closely guarded in secrecy.

I will PM you back soon.

Salamat

 

I can't seem to understand what exactly you mean by "secrets" . If these are techniques or moves then maybe it was just a matter of time or just something that is different.

The use of the term just carries with it too much deception or a negative feeling if it's openly expressed. What do you think it feeels like if you were told that you were never shown secret techniques? It kinda makes it as though what you know is not valid eh?

For example all of a sudden while training he does a scorpion kick like the yaw yan people but maybe something you don't normally do in your system? I'm just leary about the term secret. So much has been lost or so much debates have started because some masters claim that they never showed the secret techniques...a claim usally made out of spite towards a former student. Then you would have feuds amongst the system. Something that doesn't really serve anyone well. There are things that are held back or secrets but to me it's not a certain move or technique but rather principles and theories that help you undersatnd the system, the keys that unlock mechanics of the body or how to do things or figure out things. These are secrets worth striving for. Not techniques or unorthodox moves because it would just be...a move I have not seen? I don't quite know how to say it...hmmm Not using sarcasm but if I may illlustrate this in a story. Say your instructor after decades shows you a secret moves and destroys a rock with a touch of his finger..COOL! but I could very well do the same with a hammer? Get my drift? Hmmm bad example.
HOw about Bruse Lee's movie where in the end the mystical book of secrets revealed nothing but a Mirror inside? Ok, let's try this

You want secret tiknik ? What is most basic ? Number #1 strike...yes. Now you know what is most advanced tiknik? ....#1 strike

I mean you could come up with moves I have never seen but that's just because I don't know it but that does not invalidate that what you have shown me is not valid or can't be just as effective as the "hidden secret".

I studied with this one MAster and travelled 6 hours and train for two and travelled back another six, why? because he's that good. Just knowing that I was one of the select few made me feel that I was learning something different. After two years he finally told me it's all over. There's nothing left to show you. I could not understand this, He then said that I keep coming as though I was searching for the Holy Grail...that secret technique or ultimate move that I don't yet know. here's that secret....there are no secrets! The secret is to master what you DO know! "You keep searching that you never once stopped to develop what has already been shown and for the most part you will find that the mastery of the things you know will lead to the certain move that has not been shown...How much have you gathered , video taped in these years? Have you ever perfected them? NOt! because I still see how you move! Go and perfect these moves! Lessons over." I hate to sound like a monk with this stories but that's why I had to share mine regarding secrets because I personnaly had to go through this journey.

 

Hehehehehe

Bayani,

I've heard/been in similar discussions regarding 'secrets'...and ultimately the point that the 'teacher' figure emphasizes is that there are NO SECRETS. One can actually say that, in a certain sense, all martial arts are the same (another point here basically pointing at the importance of the student and his efforts, as opposed to the thought that an art is better than other arts. Ex.: if someone comes up with a martial art that has explored, perhaps through calculation/scientific method, every possible avenue of movement/attack/defense/whatnot and may be seen as "perfect"(think of that wacky 'gun kata' from the movie 'equilibrium'), it would still NEED that the student exert a certain amount of EFFORT and, just as important as effort, UNDERSTANDING.).
One of the key points stressed out, if I recall, is having an OPEN MIND (if one's mind is open to every possibility, how can secrets truly be kept? right?).

Just my two cents...and, once again, I hope I made even a slight bit of sense. Mabuhay ang lahat ng Martial Arts (Long live all martial arts)

 

True. It is not my intention to upset anyone. But I am just relating my experience with my teachers and what they have told me.

"Secrets" may seem to conotate deception, but we all have our secrets that we protect for some reason or other. For instance I have studied under many foreign arts like Brazilian Jujutsu, and Muay Thai, and I keep my skills in the FMA a "secret" just in case someone might take a casual match to the next level out of a sense of lost pride or machismo. I trust the people I have trained under and with in these arts, but I am not about to show off the counters that I know to their moves, because when I am training outside the FMA I try to keep my mind open to learn what other arts have to offer.

How this relates to this topic of "secrets" is that some Filipino Masters, or perhaps just MA masters in general, may teach perhaps 99% of what they know, and they are really teaching you everything that you need to know to defend yourself against both skilled and unskilled attackers. Especially concerning their Instructor and Master level students, because you may have to prove what you have learned, and defend the name of the art you represent, in matches with those who may challenge you. But they are showing you how to defend yourself against everyone in the world, except themselves and perhaps their kin. This is also common practice in the Chinese and Japanese arts.

For instance Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is derivative of Mitsuyo Maeda's Judo which he learned from the Kodokan. They made many innovations in the art, but when the founder Carlos Gracie wanted to challenge the Japanese Judo experts, he beat their #2 champion. This made them look bad, so they sent their #1 expert to regain their lost pride, who beat Carlos Gracie with techniques that most judokas and Carlos Gracie had never been shown. This is a classic example of why some techniques are kept hidden, or "secret".

As I stated earlier some techniques are never shown so that Filipino Grandmasters and their most trusted Masters will always have the upper hand should their own disciples, or in the instance of Carlos Gracie, a student of their disciple turn on them for the sake of establishing their own name and reputation.

Considering that the FMA previously existed in total secrecey, and would only be taught to family members, as some undoubtedly still are. We have come a long way in terms of "secrets". But this practice of secrecy which we are speaking of, does not take anything away from what FMA Masters are teaching the public. They still want their students to be the best possible martial artists that they can become in their style. But they also have to look out for themselves and their kin or closest disciples.

I know that although I may never be priveleged to be taught 100% of what my teachers know. They have certainly taught me enough to defend myself against most if not all of the styles that I have seen and experienced.

If I have not proven worthy of that level of trust yet, well so be it. You can't force trust. I am confident in what I know, but I know that I can never be the equal of my Masters, nor do I want to be. I consider myself lucky just to be their student.

 

Now I understand,
Thanks.

 

I reread your post again. This is a very good point. I had a similar revelation, and I have always tried to stress this to my students. Especially those who have achieved instructor status.

So many instructors keep searching for the "holy grail" of techniques, as you have pointed out. But you are absolutely right. Many instructors who are constantly searching out "new" techniques, have not even mastered the techniques that they already know.

I do not have a Black Belt in many of the arts that I have learned over the years, but I am constantly trying to perfect the techniques from these arts that I have included in my repetoire.

This means that I have been practicing the fundamentals in 5 or more arts for over 10 or so years for each of the arts (other than the FMA) that I know, and I really feel that I have learned more about these arts, through constant practice of the basics that I know, than I would have if I pursued Instructor status in each art, and just accumulated technique after technique without the same dedication to perfecting each and every technique, just to chase a Black Belt.

In the FMA, I am forever in awe of the endless fountain of knowledge that comes just from constant practice. Learning how to perform a technique is one thing. Learning how to apply it can take a life time of dedication.

 

From ABS-CBN News website

Filipino coach of U.S. arnis team says R.P. needs more tourneys

A Filipino was the man responsible for the U.S. team?s emergence as overall champion in the recent eighth World Eskrima Kali Arnis Federation (Wekaf) World Championships held in Cebu City.


Bong Jornales, a globe-trotting practitioner of the art of stick fighting or arnis, trained and coached the Americans, who beat the Philippines by a mile for the world title in the sport that is supposed to be the Filipinos? forte.


A day before leaving for Michigan, where he is currently based, the 55-year old Jornales stressed at the Philippine Sportswriters Association Forum at the Manila Pavilion Tuesday the need for more arnis competitions in the country.


?It?s rather sad that hardly are there any Filipino arnis tournaments here when, in fact, it?s us who are the ones who started it,? he said at the program sponsored by Agfa Colors, Red Bull and Pagcor.


?Stick fighting is now popular in the US and other countries. And the Americans and Europeans are already specializing in it.?


Jornales said arnis gained prominence in the 1970s when a master, Danny Inosanto, appeared in the Bruce Lee film Game of Death. Inosanto dueled the late martial-arts star in the movie.


He also noted that Filipinos used to reign as world champions in 1998 and 2000.


Jornales, who had been to Sweden, Denmark, Brazil and other Southern American countries propagating stick fighting, said it?s not too late for Filipinos to renew their interest in arnis. All they need is more exposure to the sport, both here and abroad.


?I know na maraming magagaling na players dito, kaya kailangan lang talaga is more exposure para tuluy-tuloy ang interest ng mga Filipino,? said Jornales, a father to two grown-up boys and husband to a member of the U.S. team.


The country?s hosting of the wekaf event is a positive development toward attaining that goal.


?Siguro magandang simula ?yun [wekaf hosting]. Hopefully, arnis officials could pick up from there,? he added.