Stickfighting Tourney : Design your own

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Diego_Vega, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    Okay, let's say that you want to have a stickfighting tournament to promote Filipino Martial Arts. The purpose of this tournament is not primarily to test a fighter's skill level, but rather to make the art more popular and understandable to the general public, for every age level,and for both men and women. The intent of making it popular would be to increase the participation rate and bring in new students. What would you allow in the rules? Why? What would you forbid? Why? You'll only be allowed to have one set of rules for both men and women and for every age level, -- including children.
     
  2. donb

    donb restless spirit

    Biggest attraction and spread of any martial arts is it's ability to attract kids. Here's some suggestions to set up tournament only to attract/introduce art:
    1. sex classification - female and male should not fight each other
    2. skill level classification - begginer, intermediate, and advanced; if you're using belt system, you can combine several belt colors together (maybe brown, red and black for advance; white to yellow for beginner; anything in between for intermediate)
    3. age classification - 2 years can be combined (probably 4 and up); maybe a peewee division, young adult, adult, seniors division (35 and up)
    4. weapons - preferably, rubber tubing or styrofoam based without hard wood or metal inside
    5. scoring - no thrusts, no take downs allowed; single 2 minute round, based on number of hits; grabs should be quick to release with a strike (no prolonged holding); disarms counted 5 points(like a knockout)
    6. disqualification - hits to face, neck, groin, with warnings along the way
    7. armor - head/face masks should be provided; may be a mouthpiece as well
    Then, probably have a demo. before the tournament, another in-between (lunch break) and towards the end - showing maybe forms, combat application. If kids are present, i wouldn't show blades in the demo if the purpose is attracting the public although i would explain it - it's hard to filter information what kids retain.
     
  3. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Watering down a martial art for the masses isn't the best course of action look what happened to Aikido.

    The Bear.
     
  4. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Correction

    SOME aikido. :)

    regards koyo

    I agree do not water any art down for the masses
     
  5. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    That's a valid opinion. But you didn't provide an alternative suggestion. How would you set up a tournament within the parameters Diego provided?
     
  6. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Requirements:
    Over 18s only.
    No sex division.
    No Weight class.
    No experience levels. (you shouldn't be fighting unless you are capable)

    Protection:
    Fencing Mask (1600N)
    Kali Armour
    Protective Gloves.

    Weapons:
    rattan 1" length unimportant

    Scoring:
    Head (3pts)
    Body + Limbs(1 pt)
    Disarm (Immediate Win)

    A bout is 1 round of 3mins if you are disarmed at any time the bout ends immediately.

    The Bear.
     
  7. donb

    donb restless spirit

    I based my suggestion on the parameters set such as: age levels, sexes, and not a test for skill level. I do agree with you about not watering down the art but if you really think about it, it has been somewhat watered down. It's now sports-oriented like tae kwon do with a lot of rules/restrictions. In fact, the suggestions i made came from an fma tournament i just witnessed which really wasn't worth getting into. That's why i also recommended demos. as intermission, showing what the real thing is, under controlled/highly skilled martial artists to regulate/filter those that can really handle it. This way, everybody can appreciate the art without having any injuries for the purpose of attracting potential students. They can take their pick as to what they want to learn, or can be introduced to it when age appropriate. Just a suggestion, you can take with a grain of salt.
     
  8. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    :confused: Do you mean the old Moro Chainmail armour, sorry never heard of Kali Armour before.

    Anyway, if it is to be the same rules right accross the board for either gender and to include kids, then there is already a format. WEKAF.

    I think no matter what the format the concentration should be on the use of the weapon as opposed to kicking, punching and throwing etc, yes FMA has all that but so do other arts and if you get a dam good kicker and puncher, or thrower bearing in mind it will be a sport format with rules for safe participation of all ages and gender, the striker and thrower could well ignore the weapon and try to win by simply striking and thowing, now if you limit it to just using the weapon then you canif the rules are right and enforced, you get to see the art too.

    I much prefer the padded stick, helmet only (gloves for kids, chest protectors for women), I would allow foot sweeps and body thrusts, and all targets above the toe. basically the rules that Master Rey Dominguez has devised, I maybe biased as I run events like that here in the UK now, but I like it. It hurts and you get to see all ranges played and the spectator can see what is going on.

    But saying that I still love the WEKAF style too as long as the rules are enforced, good for all levels.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  9. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    If I fall on my ass and keep my foot above my head, am I safe ;) (Sorry, couldnt resist :) ).

    Keeping the spirit of the art alive whilst making it open to the masses is very problematic, IMHO.

    The more protection and limitations, the more you take it away from the ideal. Though you do need some rules and limitations to ensure the safety of the masses. A bit of a quandry.
     
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    We're talking about an art that's focused on defeating an opponent with weapons or without (including the use of swords, knives, bludgeons, etc.) Isn't pretty much any training method going to constitute a "watering down" from THAT? There's no way to highlight FMA in its purest original form. And certainly not in a way that makes it palatable to a wider audience that might benefit from it.


    Stuart
     
  11. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    The question you have to ask is do you want your art for a wider audience?
    It really depends on what you want for your art bigger isn't always better.

    Pat, read an outline for the WEKAF rules. yeah they would do just fine.
    My stick fighting is from WMA single stick so we are using 40" long 1" ash or oak sticks. The rules I came up with were for that, we also have a modified rules set when sword simulating where a solid hit to a primary area was a winner. I guess it depends on the type of tourney you are up for.

    The Bear.
     
  12. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    And that's a perfectly valid question. But it isn't the question being asked here. The question originally asked here presupposes that you DO want to appeal to a wider audience.

    Personally, I think appealing to a wider audience is a good thing. Not everyone is going to participate in a martial art the same way. And I don't see any inherent problem in that. For some people, it'll serve as a window into their own culture. Or someone else's culture. And that's valuable enough a cause that I think it should be encouraged. Same for fitness, self-confidence (based on an honest appraisal of what you can do, however), and any other benefit you care to name. They're all valid reasons to want to formulate some format that people other than the "elite" can participate in.

    I think there are more than enough dimensions to what we do to benefit everyone. You just have to be honest with yourself and your students about how what they're doing relates to reality.


    Stuart
     
  13. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    But also taking away all the rules in what is in fact a weapons dominated fighting system also leaves it open to outside influence, then like UFC people begin to add in Muay Thai and BJJ etc to enhance some areas they may unwittingly feel are lacking.

    So really if you are to promote a sport version of Eskrima you have to allow the weapon to dominate, as it is after all a weapons dominated fighting art, would'nt you agree? Just think if you threw weapons such as sticks, swords and knives into UFC with no armour apart from a gum sheld and groin guard do you think you would see much grappling, kicking and punching???? Probably not.

    There will be problems with any sport, not everyone will like it and critisize it, not everyone will be good at it and they too will critisize it. Now th reason I like the padded stick versio I do now is simply because the rules are set for the killer blow (weapons based and one strike can kill without armour) and any target is valid (the big toe thing was just to clarify that any target is valid). Yes it is a point based sport, but based around continuos sparring and at the end of the day it is a sport, much the same as we could even call DBMA and Black Eagle Society a sport, they have limited protection but protection all the same, and there are some unwritten rules all the players abide by, but they are there, therefore we have a sport.

    For instance if you took out all the un-written rules of DBMA and Black Eagle Society formats and the head protection and gloves and swapped the rattan sticks for Kamagong, Bahi and swords do you honestly beleive you would see much kicking, punching and grappling??? Probably not.

    But there is that never ending search to find a sport that the public can enjoy, appreaciate and even safely participate in and still to try to resemble the martial arts systems as clse as possible, that is the point here on this thead, and to be able to allow all genders and ages to participate at the same time, you need certain guidelines.

    You should come along to Mansfeild this sunday and have a go at the British Arnis Championships (padded stick all areas of the body are targets and only a groin guard and head protector allowed), after all it may suit you more than the WEKAF format, but then again the WEKAF format may be better for you, who knows, but as I always say, dont knock it till you try it.;)

    Best regards

    Pat
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2007
  14. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    But also adding in other arts, is that not also taking away the spirit of the art? which in turn can also be very problematic in that you are not seeing or representing a true depiction of the art as it is suppose to be represented.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  15. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Hi Pat,
    What would worry me about mass marketing stick fighting, especially with kids, you come under the gaze of the those who see any form of violence as undesirable. I can almost see the hysterical headlines. Look at the hysteria being generated as mma grows in popularity can you imagine this with stick fighting?

    The Bear.
     
  16. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Doesn't seem to have hurt kendo or fencing
     
  17. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    i don't know if that holds true in all places concerned. it certainly won't raise eyebrows on the islands. but i get what you're saying. though i myself can't wait until i can teach my son the rudiments of the stick, the knife, and the empty hand.
     
  18. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    fencing and kendo aren't mass sports.
    I don't know any kids kendo classes, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.
    Kids fencing classes are quite rare as well.

    The Bear.
     
  19. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Sorry shooto,
    I am looking at this from a euro-centric viewpoint apologies.

    The Bear.
     
  20. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I doubt arnis will ever be a mass sport either. As for kids' kendo classes, I'd wager that Japan has them. In fact, last I heard, it was a PE requirement. And I've fenced kids before. There doesn't have to be a ton of them to prove that kids + weapons training doesn't work.


    Stuart
     

Share This Page