Steve Morris says all forms of Karate are useless

Discussion in 'Karate' started by ronki23, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Steve can undeniably motor - that has never been my issue with him
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    the sporting side is a very short span so often it is a time thing - I do know that practicing "a form" as opposed to "forms' means i can hold my own against Harry better than I could before

    It's weird that they really do give you extra insight...after you can scrap...which means that when i was FIRST taught them they weren't taught correctly...which is the problem i highlighted earlier
     
  3. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    The competitive sporting side is, but sparring with safety gear , sensible partners and at an appropriate level of power means you can go on as long as you want to
    It also means there's no excuse to not spar at some level in every session be it grappling, striking or even weapons work
     
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So you're telling me it a lot less effective than hitting pads, exercise and sparring?
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Yes, in the same way skipping and lifting are less effective than technique work for fighting....doesn't mean they don't have crossover though
     
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Don;t see where i advocated otherwise
     
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    You advocated a different method of training to what I stated saying the sporting side was finite in length I pointed out its training methods aren't finite and you can continue using those methods if you want to.

    Training time is limited you have to decide how you spend it but running, weights and conditioning all are proven to make you a better fighter the jury is still out on forms
     
  8. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    A stronger more agile fighter is a better fighter that is a given, there crossover is proven
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    yet someone who is stronger and more agile will get starched if they have no technique so it is a support system n'est pas?
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I would do the obvious and say MACHIDA!

    I am not saying forms are the best method - they certainly aren't for me, and I even get bored after 4 passes of sumbrada - but to say they are useless implies that the individual doesn;t really grasp what they are

    Again John Titchen is another great example of applied forms
     
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Where did I say they were useless I'm saying they are inefficient compared to other proven methods, and there are very few exceptions to that rule for every Machida there is a a long list of karate guys handed their backsides by the Gracie's
     
  12. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    A support system that's proven to aid a fighter and make him better forms are not
     
  13. Nachi

    Nachi Valued Member Supporter

    I am not sure if I really want to argue about this, I just see the whole kata thing from a slightly different perspective maybe?
    I agree with what Hannibal said - kata is good to help you learn the basic technique, but there are, of course, more effective methods to teach how to use the techniques in fight. I do Goju and kata is fairly important in this style. I actually enjoy it a fair bit. I appreciate the historical purpose I see in the kata - I suppose it is how the techniques were passed down before and it is therefore a traditional way, so I am happy it wasn't just taken out for modern purposes, which seem to be to learn to fight in a ring or what. With kata, you can learn how the techniques are put into sequences, you can extract techniques from them and they are an easy exercise you can drill easily by yourself, even when older etc. Also it lets you clear your mind and drill techniques in a different way. It is a bit similar, though different to shadow boxing. Basically a thing not everyone may like and seek, but hey... nobody is forcing youto do a kata-based style if you don't enjoy it, right? So why bother discussing how useful they are or aren't for your purpose?

    I have also done a bit of kobudo and I can see how kata is really useful for weapon-based MAs, where it isn't easy to spar. You learn the same techniques chained the same way as they were taught before. You will not really use them today, as you probably won't be using the whole art. Does it make it a bad or useless MA just because it won't you help win a UFC fight? Then don't do it, why should you? This is why I don't really understand discussions about how useful are some arts or training methods. Or it is just me not getting the point.
     
    Hannibal likes this.
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So it falls waaaay down below basic things that work much better.
     
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    I have no idea what you're on about here,Mr. W.

    Depending on what one is doing #s 1 through 4 are all applicable for function.
     
  16. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Let's get back to the topic at hand- Steve Morris. From his website:

    Pedigree

    Egotistical much?

    He also says Mas Oyama was a fraud when it came to his achievements like chopping off bull horns and bottle tops but Morio Higaonna and Oyama's students can do that too.
     
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    No it doesn't, it isn't an either/or thing

    If I have 20 minutes to spare at home I can go through a form/carrenza/shadowbox quite happily...I can do angles 1-12 waiting for the bath to run...I can do form 1...I can do siu lim tao waiting for the kettle to boil....these aren't '2 HOURS AND DONE' workout replacements they are compliments

    Put it this way - I have trained with elite level masters and fighters and THEY see the value; so do I

    YMMV but as the OP stated "USELESS" I think even then most jaded opponent would say he is wrong
     
    Nachi likes this.
  18. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Could you explain the "function application" for 1, 2, 3, 4 in your opinion?
     
  19. hewho

    hewho Valued Member

    I've started to see more value in kata the more my instructor has gone into depth on body mechanics. It's a way of practising something when I have no partner, pads, or a punchbag. I can take a sequence that I've used in sparring already (Low block as a kick catch, followed with a step through body punch) and work on getting the movements smoother, or something that I struggle to land with power (front kick) and film myself, try and analyse the movement, talk to my instructor, then try it out in padwork and sparring.
    If we say that shadowboxing is the boxing equivalent of kata, there is a quote from Barry McGuigan that sums up my feelings on it. 'I'd shadow-box whatever Danny was teaching me first, then move on to trying it out on the pads, and then take it into a sparring session. that can sound a bit repetitive, but when you feel the improvement in your performance, then you know all that hard effort you've been putting in has been worthwhile'
    My experience is limited, so maybe in ten years of training I'll think something completely different.

    TL;DR
    If I have a training partner, I wouldn't choose to work forms, I'd want to spar, or drill. If I'm by myself, with a spare 10 minutes and a camera so I can analyse, I'll do some form.
     
    Hannibal likes this.
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Pretty much my take
     

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