Steve Morris says all forms of Karate are useless

Discussion in 'Karate' started by ronki23, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    'Mad Morris' went to Japan to get his Goju Ryu Dan grades and even studied Fujian White Crane Kung Fu in China but says Karate in its entirety (yes even Kyokushin) is useless.

    He claims that 30 minutes of training with him would be more beneficial than 30 years of karate.

    I don't have much respect for him as he breaks the rules when fighting- when he competed in Kyokushin he used to kick people in the balls and he used to punch/kick in Judo. He also says his pupils would destroy everyone in UFC.

    The only thing I agree with him is that kata and forms are useless. Doesn't give you the right to slander other styles- I don't even do karate. Apparently he's saying this because he used to compete in Muay Thai in Japan?

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Are you deliberately trolling the forum or just got some pent up issues you need to exorcise?
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Kata and forms aren't useless - you are probably just useless at them
    Grond, Van Zandt and Travess like this.
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Also Morris farts higher than his own bum
    axelb likes this.
  5. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    I don't ever say this or that martial art is crap unlike Morris. However, I do agree some martial arts are better than others. I don't see any proof he competed in Muay Thai in Japan and it's egotistical saying 30 minutes with him would teach you more than 30 years of karate.
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Except you just wrote of kata - clearly without actually understanding them
    Travess likes this.
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I'll always place the blame on instructors, except in rare outlier cases.

    I don't think that forms are a good method of teaching for beginners though, and they are demonstrably unnecessary to becoming a good fighter. There are far more efficient ways to get people motoring in the early stages. The standard practice of doing kata first and then trying to apply the movements in practical application seems all backwards to me.
  8. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    The only good kata would be weapon defence katas in judo as weapon katas and randori are all I want out of judo; I used to do ju jitsu as well and found that deflecting strikes or defending against strikes before a throw was unrealistic. That's why I prefer judo and weapon/self defence kata to make a complete system.

    Also you're going off-topic. Morris says all karate including Kyokushin, Goju Ryu and Fujian White Crane are useless. He's making a bold claim that you'd learn more with him for 30 minutes than 30 years karate. He's making an even bolder claiming his students would destroy the UFC roster. What do people think of 'Mad Morris'???
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what kata/forms are - which is understandable on the surface in fairness.

    The problem is that the "hobbying" of martial arts led to kata becoming perfunctory - which also coincided with the lack of pressure testing becoming prevalent.

    However, the bunkai is self evident even outside the actual art

    I am not a pattern person myself - I don't learn well by rote - but I DO perform isolation sequences that are passable as kata. Similarly my practice on the combative elements has improved vastly since I started incorporating

    Most who decry kata have never done them properly or else fail to understand what they represent as part of an overall strategy
    axelb and Simon like this.
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Clueless...really, absolutley clueless and blatantly ignorant of what the patterns are about. Have you even done any bunkai work?

    He is full of crap

    Ok fighter in fairness, but stuck in a loop and few students have shown any actual ability
    cloudz likes this.
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If you don't have experience of application, then forms/isolation exercises will be unavoidably perfunctory.

    Which is why I said I don't think they are good for beginners. It's like expecting a boxer to shadow box if they've never even sparred.

    My take is that they can be a tool for refinement of mechanical minutiae, but that refinement is only possible once you are reasonably solid in the actual application. Otherwise it's just interpretive dance.
    axelb, YouKnowWho and Knee Rider like this.
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Agree with you 100% there. If you train application first. You then map that application back into drill. That will make much more sense.

    Here is an example.

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
    Fish Of Doom, axelb, Dan93 and 2 others like this.
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I also agree with your opinion that at some stage you are better off creating your own forms.
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I wouldn't really be bothered with kata. I've got the first 12 strikes of the Inosanto/Lacoste system with a single stick and that's about it.

    Plus you can become a great instructor/fighter/martial artist without them at no personal disadvantage.
    Monkey_Magic, ronki23 and Knee Rider like this.
  15. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Here is another example. If you teach the application first:

    You then teach the solo drill, students will understand what's going on. But if you reverse the order, students may not understand why their bodies should move in such a strange way.

    Define your goal first and then find a path to get there is the most logical approach.

  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Here is a good example. You can move your arms as:

    1. both palms face downward.
    2. both palms face upward.
    3. left palm face upward and right palm face downward.
    4. left palm face downward and right palm face upward.

    Without considering application, you can do anyway that you prefer. With the considering of application, there is only one correct way. Which one?

    A teacher has no application experience will teach a group of students also with no application experience.

  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Nope - the kata gives the correct method for technique delivery. "sequenced basics" in other words. NO system...not any worth anything anyway...goes straight to application. Even in HAVOC where everything is drilled out of movement we isolate first

    I will flip it - it's not letting someone spar until they can actually do a technique properly

    And boxers all shadow box prior to sparring - the good gyms anyway

    How much kata have you actually done? Genuine question
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    They are not needed to achieve those true.... but the will make you better at them
  19. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    If we can link all the successful finish moves (include the set up) from all UFC fights into one form, that form will have some great value.

    Example - side kick, spin back fist.

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  20. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think kata are great for beginners. Especially children. My daughter could barely turn round or step forwards without losing balance when she started martial arts.
    Patterns are great for very low level movement practice without any pressure whatsoever.
    Of course if you aren't picking the forms apart, drilling with pressure, applying them in the context of real violence, pulling out what works for you, working on principles, etc then they pretty much are useless martial dancing (which is sadly what many people do).
    Fish Of Doom and Hannibal like this.

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