I've been reading a bit about Ninjutsu and it's history, and have been learning a lot about Mr. Hayes and his history in Ninjutsu. I think that although Hayes is definitely a legitimate martial artist, he promotes his students quite quickly. Note that some of his high belts, i.e. John Gentoshi Poliquin, have been training less than 30 years, and already hold a 6th or 7th degree black belt. Now, I think that this either shows a true and almost fanatical devotion to the arts, or that they were advanced quite fast. Note, I do not have experience in Ninjutsu, and don't know if these high belts hold less significance than in other systems, or if this is considered normal in Ninjutsu.
Try not to get hung up on belts. Different arts approach the matter in different ways. I met the guy briefly at the '99 Tai Kai and liked him. I'd expected him to be a bit of a peacock, but didn't get that at all. He was cool. There are a number of threads on him in this section and a lot of opinions. The search function is a good start.
Cluebird posted Thats an interesting point of view but I don't know if its accurate. Certainly this year on the UK seminar very few grades were given out and only one person graded to Shodan, and neither of the Shodans graded to nidan. The reason being is that there is a period of time between shodan and nidan of at least two years whic is about standard for most martial arts. In fact if one looks at the Hombu website here http://www.skhquest.com/articles/blackbeltholders.php One will notice that although there are quite a few black belts the list gets smaller and smaller as one goes up the grades and those at 5th dan and above have been training for absolutely years. Only had the chance to meet Mr Polinquin briefly but watching the DVDs he looks awesome. But that aside according to his website Mr Polinquin has been training since the 80s http://www.questmartialarts.com/html/quest_instruct_john.html Personally I think that 7th dan is about right for someone who has been training for that length of time. Certainly the same is true in grade length with other Kans and maybe they might even be a little more lax with grades that Mr Hayes organisation. Ok lets do some basic math. Lets say Mr Polinquin started in 1983. That 24 years ago. Ok lets say 5 years to black belt which is pretty standard in most other martial arts. Then one grade every three years to 7th dan, hardly giving grades away is it. Really. Do a search or do I smell troll. Dale Seago posted 1975 springs to mind from memory (32 years). Garth
Well I can't speak for John Poliquin because I haven't met him but I can speak perhaps of James Norris. When I met him and trained with him, James was a 5th Dan in the Bujinkan and a 6th Dan in Toshindo. The man is an exceptionally talented martial artist and carries those grades with confidence. I would imagine that John Poliquin could be put in the same boat although that's extrapolation and conjecture on my part. I believe he's coming to the UK shortly to teach a seminar. I have the details somewhere if anyone wants them (PM me if you do and I'll dig them out).
Thanks for the replies everyone. Yeah, I was just susprised because in my dojo (a japanese arts dojo), the master is a 6th dan in Aikido with about 50 years of training.
Cluebird posted I've certianly heard that in some of the more, shall we say established arts like Judo and Aikido, but it does not have to be that way. Certainly there should be a time period between each grade so that the students can assimilate what is being taught, but my own personal view is that if you have a sylabus through the kyu grades and into the dan grades, and material is set for each of those grades, then surely once one has mastered the material for those grades then that student should be graded. Sometimes however, sadly in some arts grade is equal more to ones political postion in the organisation, or the number of years in the association or what they can give to the association rather than how good they are at the art. And i'm not just talking about martial arts here. Garth
Yes, I've heard that about the political positions as well. Someone who had studied in Japan told me that after 6th Dan, it was almost about how much you contributed to the school, etc.
:topic: Garth i just lol'd very very hard at your Title beneath your name.... man i'm such a geek :topic:
