Staff in various Kung Fu styles and Leopard Kung Fu

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Nykout, Dec 13, 2015.

  1. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Hello

    Which styles of Kung Fu emphasise on the staff usage the most?
    Also since this is quite a short thread, I additionally wanted to ask about Leopard Kung Fu, namely:
    - Is there any official organisation/family that has listed all the schools worldwide?
    - What is the proper Chinese name for this style?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  2. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    The southern shoalin styles often place an emphasis on staff forms. The southern monkey stick is found in hung ga and probably other styles as well. In southern systems the system tends to be defined by the hand forms and the weapons tend to be more freely shared between systems.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcNI-Szrb0o"]Hung Gar Kuen - Monkey King Staff Sample. - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  3. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Choy Li Fut has many staff forms. Below is a list of the ones in my lineage. There is both single and double ended staff techniques within the system. I copied a list from my GM's website.

    Is there a style that is called or emphasizes Leopard Fist only? I am not aware of any. Again, CLF is known for using the leopard fist a lot, but it is hardly the only punching technique we use. Below is the Sifu from the Mira Mesa location of our school's doing the CLF Leopard form.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ-779rVG3k&feature=player_embedded"]Choy Li Fut - Pau Ying Kuen Leopard Form - YouTube[/ame]

    http://plumblossom.net/ChoyLiFut/formslist.html
     
  4. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Thank you very much for listing all the forms.
    I am not sure if there is a separate Leopard style, but it would be only natural since there are seperate Tiger, Crane, and Dragon styles being taught, and maybe even more from the animal list that I am not aware of.
    If anybody here knows if there is something like that, please let us know as well.

    About Choy Li Fut, is it an eclectic system? You are sayin that you use a lot of Leopard Fist, so there are probably other styles' elements as well?
     
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I would not call CLF an eclectic system. The founder, Chan Heung, created it in 1836 from 3 styles. It is a style with a lot of variety, but I wouldn't say eclectic.
     
  6. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    I see, thank you. Anyway, back to Leopard Fist. Have you ever heard of any school that is dedicated to teaching the leopard techniques? As I said, Fu Jow Pai teaches only Tiger, Bai He Quan teaches only Crane, Lung Ying only dragon, etc. so it would be quite normal for there to be a style that teaches exclusively the Leopard.
     
  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member


    The five animal hands appear in many styles. Some style place more focus on one animal but few styles only use one animal

    Take Fu Jow Pai for example, the form bellow contains crane techniques from 5 s to 7 s repeated on the other side at 16 s. The initial closing of the hands into the salute (1s) appears in many hung gar forms and is a dragon hand technique.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDq-vNWpXXM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDq-vNWpXXM[/ame]

    Why the interest in panther hand in particular?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  8. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Hmm, so Fu Jow Pai is not Tiger exclusive. Is Lung Ying not 100% Dragon exclusive as well? Do you know of any style which contributes most of its time to Leopard techniques (Just like Fu Jow Pai does to Tiger)?
     
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I am curious. Why would you want to limit yourself to a style with just one type of fist to strike with? Leopard style is just a type of fist and a couple of traits (like strength and speed- oh something else I can't remember right now). The traits are actually trained in pretty much all MA's, so it just comes down to a style of fist. And you generate power the same way, regardless of what shape your fist is in. If I throw a punch to the Groin or solar plexus, I do it the same way, whether throwing a regular punch or a leopard fist.

    Animal styles are just a training tool. A way of breaking down concepts into different classifications. But it hardly has things unique that aren't in other arts. Again, except for the fist shape.

    If you want to emphasize that fist. Do a lot of conditioning to have the strength to strike with a leopard fist. My Sifu emphasizes only soft targets with a leopard fist unless you are very well conditioned to strike hard targets in this manner. Like leopard fist push ups.

    Personally, I don't see the need to condition so much for what- an extra inch or two of reach (?) by using a leopard fist over a regular fist on a hard target.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  10. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Yes, but for example Lung Ying (which is an animal style) is a complete martial art on its own. It's not that I desperately want to train in Leopard style, but I am just curious since despite of it being a well known Kung Fu animal, there are no (to my knowledge) schools that state that they teach Bao Xing (the Leopard Fist).

    And besides, the characteristic leopard fist has picked up my interest, mostly because I train everyday with things like standard fist, reversed fist, shotei, nukite, tegatana, etc. and I am curious of this particular hand and finger placement technique.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member



    Lung ying per se - i don't know, because I do not know what the generally accepted understanding of lung ying is. We do have a dragon form in our syllabus. The form emphasis's the dragon movement and application but includes all of the 5 animal hands.

    As for an art that only focuses on panther - to be honest I don't see the point. While a panther hand is a thing in and off its self. In practical application it is used as a hybrid hand with elements of cranes wing, fist and snake. So I don't see why you would focus just on panther without including cranes wing, fist and snake as reference points to create a wider understanding.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  12. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    I edited my comment above, possibly after you replied, the mail notification system is kinda late sometimes.

    As I said, I am working everyday with a lot of different hand techniques, and would like to understand the concept behind the leopard fist position.
     
  13. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Aarrida is spot on about the conditioning. A panther hand will come apart under the pressure of a strike unless you regularly condition it.

    If you are going to do conditioning however I would strongly recommend against panther fist press ups done on their own . To do conditioning properly you need a proper training regiment with herbal teas and a structured approach that builds strength without causing damage to the joints. Aarradia is wright that this takes a lot of time. So most people prefer to invest their time in other aspects of their art.
     
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    What style are you training in?
     
  15. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member


    In that case just look for overlap between snake, cranes wing, and fist techniques and you will begin to see the concepts (plural) of panther fist emerge. :)

    Litteraly play with using panther hand in cranes wing, snake and fist techniques and see what happens.
     
  16. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Capoeira and Karate Kyokushin.
     
  17. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    And if I may ask, what does crane wing look like?
     
  18. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    You get an extra bit of reach.

    You can slide your hand into certain targets easier due to the hand shape. Like hitting the throat by slipping it under the chin and above the body. Easier with a leopard fist than a regular fist.

    The strike is a maybe little more sharp as the hitting space is more condensed than a regular punch -maybe. That is- the power generated is coming through the knuckle tips. But really not even that. As most strikes I know are supposed to be condensed with one or several knuckles being the primary focal point of where how you land the punch. It is just different knuckles used. Using the knuckles used in a leopard fist would be a little different I suppose. Those different knuckles would feel a bit different than the knuckles used in other strikes.

    But the downside is you really have to get the structure right or your hand could collapse with the strike. Easier to make a regular fist than a leopard fist.

    I think you want there to be more behind it than there actually is. Of course, I am more than happy to learn there is more to it than that if someone knows something I don't. But I think it isn't that big of a difference.
     
  19. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member


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    Standing on one leg is part of many open cranes wing techniques as the raised knee is used to attack the head or control the neck / spine for locks.
     
  20. Nykout

    Nykout Valued Member

    Oh, I see, thank you.
     

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