Sports Karate vs Original Karate

Discussion in 'Karate' started by shotokanster, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    You aren't gonna be naked in this are you?? :hat:
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i would have if you had asked sooner.
  3. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame=""]crescent kick for map - YouTube[/ame]

  4. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Thanks for taking the time... and thanks for wearing a vest :hat:

    When I was shown to throw a cresent kick - way back when - we would open out the hip, let the foot follow the arc from one side to the other and then drop and return via a 45 degree angle to the stating point (planted) pivoting back to ready stance on the lead foot (I would film me doing a rusty ass re-creation of this but I don't have the means so that crappy explanation will have to do). You seem to be throwing it with greater hip rotation and I guess the way you've demoed the 'slap' seems to fit.

    Merci :)
  5. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    Nice video, fluffy hair. :)

    Thats how i watched older students do it in heian godan and bassai dai. Complete with loud smacking sound, of course. :)
  6. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    I'll ask my homies and get back to ya. :)
  7. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I suspect this is a modern affectation. As I learned it in Shorin Ryu the leg swings into the open hand, where it connects on the leg is immaterial. It should simply feel comfortable so somewhere along the inside of the shin is where it works for most people. I personally prefer the 'old mans' version where the lower leg is vertical and the point of contact is at the knee - its suits my minimalist approach, my inner laziness some might say.

    As for mikazuki's profundity in kata, I know onlynof one in Passai Dai, and one for all of the Pinans put together (Pinan Godan) - which itself is just a copy of the one in Passai Dai IMO. I'd consider the other examples again to be modern additions/affectations - you'll see them in Shotokan but not, for example, in Wado (or not how I learnt it at least).

    As for application, I'd personally agree with the broad theme of holding with one hand while you kick with the other. But in my case its more like a) hold somewhere on the upper body and knee the thigh or, b) hold a body part (eg. head) from one side while swinging the knee into the other side in a 'sandwich' effect.

  8. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    We use it in Heian sandan , but i know other groups don't , i'd always thought they were there because the roundhouse kick wasn't introduced until the post war years

    I can't really see any other explanation for the movement (apart from the performance aspect i mentioned earlier).
  9. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Can you give some examples?
  10. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Yeah, I've seen them in Heian Sandan but they're absent in Pinan Sandan (Wado) so I'd always assumed they were just a demonstrative Shotokan addition.

    I can see merit in Fish's suggestion of using the hand to arrest the leg movement but I would see it as secondary to application.

  11. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Not all Shotokan , i'm pretty sure KUGB use the knee strike/fumikomi version that's closer to Wado.
  12. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Yup, no mikazuki geri in heian sandan as I know it.

    We do it like this:

    [ame=""]Heian Sandan - YouTube[/ame]
  13. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    The 3 steps with hands on hips in Pinan Sandan just mentioned.

    The 3 double punches at the end of Bassai Dai (I think maybe some Shotokan groups put crescent kicks here but some don't, am I misremembering or have I perhaps even seen outward crescent kicks here?)

    Also in Bassai, turning round from 'blocking' high and low, to just blocking low, immediately before the one that I would consider the genuine mikazuki. That sounds a bit bullish, sorry, by genuine I just mean the point in the kata that I've been taught as mikazukigeri.

    They're the only obvious examples that spring to mind, I wouldn't be surprised if there others.

  14. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame=""]Hirokazu Kanazawa - Heian Sandan - YouTube[/ame]

    this is pretty much how i learned it, but with an even bigger leg swing (might have been purely local)
  15. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Cheers Bassai, Moosey

    I'd not seen (or failed to notice) Sandan with a stamp instead of a crescent kick. Wado as I learnt it (and just checked that this is also how Ohtsuka did it) just had a step with no hint of a kick.

  16. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Yeah , we do cresent kicks there.

    Interesting view , we don't emphasise mikazukigeri as such , more that the knee and elbow are touching.

    As a practitioner of an older style (for want of a better phrase) , what's your view on the use of this kick in kata ? And why do you think people felt the need to add it in other styles ?
  17. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    i'm doing heian sandan, with the stamp.

    Btw i asked my shotokanny homies and they both said this:

    your talking about the cresent kick? It is part of the technique, kind of like the elbow one. It is to create more power, to make the technique more effective.

    I know some applications for both the elbow and the cresent kick, but I have no idea why actually hitting the hand would make a difference to the technique. Knowing the JKA, if they created it, it would be to make a nice cool sound and to look cool.

    # and it is a nice cool sound =] I was just wondering if hitting your hand had any relevance.
  18. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    This person has no idea what they are talking about.

    this person is at least honest.

    That's something to hold in the back of your mind when soliciting future opinions from the group eh?
  19. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    what killa said. first guy does not seem to have applied physics in his assessment of the technique.

    second guy's comment made me chuckle :p
  20. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Excellent Fish!!!

    Well done.

    I like to teach crescent kick that steps though the head, that way the majority of the power is behind it, but you did an excellent job with so many of the variations of the crescent kick.

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