Hi 'Lorelei', Got to say that I like the criteria - they are good and sensible - and if practised along with pad and bag work (so that you can hit a target with power and without hurting yourself) it seems like a good way to train 'Karate'.
I don't think they're training fighting skills either, but more importantly I don't think they do either. They have chosen a sporting discipline and followed it to a logical end to compete at the highest level and are happy with that. Is Shotokan sparring really training fighting skills? Isn't a lot of it actually counterproductive to genuine self defence skills (which is what I assume we mean by "fighting?") As I say, it is what it is; there is value in the athleticism displayed and if we are only going to criticise if for "not looking like fighting" we had better take a long hard look at our own sparring before casting that stone. Essentially I think a lot of the criticism comes down to, "I don't like it." Nothing wrong with that reaction, I don't like it either, but it's a different thing from, "that's terrible." Mitch
Yes No (c'mon, what did you expect ) Oh, sure, my major criticism is that I don't like it, which is the same criticism I have for MMA. Unlike with MMA, though, I also doubt the martial arts effectiveness of point-fighting. I'm sure that you're absolutely right about the fact that it's a whole different ball game to what we'd call "martial arts" and doesn't really ask to be judged by the same criteria, but it did get posted in the "karate" forum, so that does kinda open it up from criticism from a karate perspective.
It's fine. I'm no fan of GKR and no fan of that approach to sparring irrespective of what style or organisation, but thanks for the post and I'm not going to flame you.
Yes, we do pad work (especially for kicks!) but I have to say we probably do less strengthening and conditioning than we should in most (not all!) classes. The kumite is always kept (theoretically) non-contact though. I'd be interested to hear what other styles do, both in training and in tournament sparring, as regards contact rules, scoring criteria and what protective gear is required.
Because they are often sports specific, or in this case sparring specific. Not all clubs are like that. But yes, I'll agree to the broad generalisations whilst caveating that it won't be the only thing they can do. WTF break boards with hand techniques, for example. Mitch
My opinion - I don't like it as a sport it's like as tacky screamy game of tag with combat overtones. As a fight proxy it sucks... that may or not be relevant to the practitioners but as Moosey said it's been posted for evaluation in that manner.
yep realise that which I why I stated 'many are' rather than 'they all are, now bow to me, grovel and beg for my forgivness' like I normally would :hat:
No, it wasn't posted for evaluation as a combat sport. It was posted to get a list of pros and cons and differences from karate. All we've had so far is, "That sucks!" As a fight proxy how do strikes fit into BJJ sparring? Mitch
If you like, but I'm sure it's been done many times before. There are certainly problems with shotokan shiai kumite but on the whole it's "sort of ok in some ways if you get what it's trying to do", whereas I don't think point fighting even reaches those dizzy heights. :hat:
You said "many arts are," not "many clubs within specific arts are," but it's OK, I forgive you and there's no need to grovel Mitch
Fighting? Limited rules sparring? Karate? Isn't Karate grabbing folk and smacking them? Man I'm in a mischevious mood tonight Worthwhile points, though maybe we're going too far OT. Mitch
I think everyone will judge the OP clip based on their own experience and the criteria they spar under in their chosen style. To me, coming from a non-contact style with fairly formal rules, it seems reckless and lacking in defensive strategies, but Mitch is right - I may not like it, but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong. The bit I struggle with is reconciling their interpretation of 'sport' karate with mine - can anyone dig up a definitive clip of a 'traditional' karate bout so we can compare and contrast?
I don't think there's any such thing Lorelei; the debate about what Karate is or what traditional karate is could go on for ever Mitch
Well if it is being posted for comparason with karate on a martial arts forum then it's naturally going to be evaluated by how well it compares to karate in terms of a preparatory tool for fighting and as a recreation of combat. BJJ instills excellent mechanics, techniques and physical attributes for taking a person to the ground and submitting them. It promotes a systematic approach to gaining positional dominance from which strikes can be launched. Generally strikes are more of an issue for the guy on the bottom and the only time I feel vulnerable to strikes is on entry or if I'm on my back. BJJ will give you the skills to most likely be the guy on top. BJJ training does cover defence from strikes especially if MMA competition is a training goal. Having said that in straight Gi or no-Gi jitz breaking posture and establishing proper wrist/sleeve control can mitigate against punches whilst on your back. It's a bad spot to be in... getting clubbed in the head and body in MMA has a dramatic impact on peoples ability to use their jitz but when they have no jitz or groundgame then they get battered as a certainty. BJJ is what it is, which is a very effective system of fighting in it's own right trained very pragmatically. Overall the best fight proxy is - in my opinion - MMA and if you want to include weapons then dog bros or similar
