(Split from Dim Mak) Relatiohship between IMA and the Bujinkan, is there one?

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Lord Spooky, Jun 10, 2005.

  1. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    1. Silly and unproven.
    2. Don't bother.
    3. Silly, sloppy and a fraud.
     
  2. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    1. The pressure point thing can work but only on a very limited selection of points certainly not something to stake your life on.

    2. Read as many books as possible but dont believe all you read research it and use it only if it works for you.

    3. An interesting person i personally have not decided on what i think but again go out there and find out for your self if you believe what he teaches.
     
  3. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    Ok no belive it or notI'm not being funny I'm now confused, must be my western mind :rolleyes: , you can give Grim your teachers name but not at this moment??? how come??? :)



    Could you please explain what you mean with the above and how it fits in with this years Bujinkan theme and in turn how this years theme fits in with Dim Mak and the relation you see between the two.
    Also spelling and such please I can appreciate if you are rushing that errors will be made but your post is not only hard to read it is very confising due to how it's written, I thought you were an English teacher??????

    Thank you
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2005
  4. Blooming Lotus

    Blooming Lotus Banned Banned

    Firstly , for "everyone else " having more knowledge and experience, I think that the following will just speak for itself.

    ......and yes, that post was written midst 3-day drinking binge between training and business, but you'll just have to spank me and send to me hell :rolleyes: .

    Regardless though, I did actually consider your request the other night to provide you with names and personal contacts to harangue, and I've conservatively decided that to protect both my own individual privacy and to prevent that particular sensei being unduly harrassed - I will not be provding you with those details.

    However, the information should be available from your own local bujinkan senseis ( if you're not one yourself been priviliged to previously study and train at the soke's Japanese school branch ) .

    On the bujinkan / internal ma connection though, I think that when you understand 2 particular important subtlities of bujinkan and ninjutsu in general ( that so many just don't and never do ) in that A. the pressure point striking currilculum app techs relate to and are directly dependant on meridian existance, acknowledgement and utilisation ( though termed and phrased in Japanese and bujinkan specific language ) , and that B. the "zen" tone and qi ( ki ) cultivation methods utilised by bujinkan including their awareness development drills and exercise sets and form sets etc, are directly comparative and translatable to buddhism's "satori " cultivation techniques ( personally poiniant to my own grasshopper understanings btw ;) :) ) and again found in Japanese / bujinkan terminology , then it becomes extremely and blatantly clear A. on what parameters these MAs meet and that B. the internal aspects of of bujinkan is as important to proficiency as it is to understand and acknowledge under any other system.
    Additionally and imo, the discovery of these exact relationships and these types of conceptual consistencies is exactly what the whole cross branch study / training trip is all about . At the end of the day, it comes down to those that get it and those that don't- and respectively interperate and play and train their arts and life - choice modal operandi accordingly.

    Cheers, be well and feel free to conduct your own research before nxt pretending you know about what you're speaking or are being in anyway mature or objective. ;) :cool:

    Blooming Lotus

    Btw : I can almost guarantee you , on the grain of the this thread, for the most part , I myself am the one with more experience and knowledge in this regard than alot of you here or ppl I meet regasdless of who holds what black belt or how many stripes it has or what time which of us has in what particular in system in most international dojos and schools etc I've ever visited!! ........as dissappointing and frustrating as that has potential to become .............though your arrogant remarks will just continue to speak for themselves. Arrogance is a perogative and by all means go right ahead ! :cool:

    cheers again
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2005
  5. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    LOL BL, from the look of your spelling before, It must of been one hell of a night. :D
     
  6. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    Either she is not in the buj or she has a bit of a fake teacher because i cant remember the last time i did anything on the meridians!!
     
  7. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    I think in all the posts you may have forgot about this one :)

    Could you please point us in the direction of a source that covers what you've said. How do you know Hatsumi Sensei thinks this?

    Also could you please in non CMA terms describe the link between Dim Mak and the current theme in the Bujinkan?

    What is your understanding of this years theme? I've atteneded a few training sessions/seminars this year, as have I would imagine other members of the board, conducted by Teachers ranging in rank from Shidoshi to Judan Kugyo all of these sessions covered this years theme so you could say we've had our info from good sources :)

    Again what experience have you got in the Bujinkan
    and can you please explain what you mean by the following:


    Are you saying that a Shidoshi should be able to provide details of your Teacher er BL we don't even know where in the world you are? The Buyu network is good but I doubt if it's that good :rolleyes:

    As for you teacher getting harrassed have you thought that there's a good chance that with the memebers of the Bujinkan on this board someone will know him/her?? There's a number of senior ranks in the Ninjutsu forum they tend to know "names" ;) so harrassment wont be a problem.


    Sorry BL I'm far from stupid but I had trouble following your previous post!!!
    So far you haven't answered any questions you've been asked!!!!! :bang: :bang:

    Yes this thread is about Dim Mak you've stated there's a link between Bujinkan Taijutsu and Dim Mak please show it and as you say you have Bujinkan experience do it using Bujinkan terminology, link it to concepts that are found within our Art, link it to the Ryu where is Dim Mak found with in the Schools of the Bujinkan

    Thank you for your time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2005
  8. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    Ok lets put things straight here.

    BL, there is no DIM MAK in the bujinkan we do not train with this death touch rubbish. Koshijutsu, as you should know :bang: is about attcking the muscular structure and nerves of the body not the meridians!!!

    You do not post your teacher on here because you are an embarassment to the art, if you did study in the Buj you would know that a lot of what you are talking about is rubbish, gyokko is about minipulating muscles and balance NOT DIM MAK!!! :bang:
     
  9. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    Thank you for putting it so clearly. If Blooming Lotus can give exact quotes from Soke about meridians and such, we can have a conversation. But I bet she is going to just shoot back with a comment along the line of, "if you really knew the art you would be agreeing with me."
    :rolleyes:
     
  10. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Comparing Dim Mak to principles within Taijutsu could well be a good discussion as it brings in the question of what is the definition of Dim Mak, is it the "Death Touch" delayed death type stuff involving disruption to Chi/Qi/Ki flow or is it striking to Kusho points and such, I believe there is a difference between the two?

    As for the view of Soke with regards to Taijutsu being a internal Art or not I’m going to continue discussing it with the higher Ranking members of the Bujinkan on MAP who have actually had contact with him, I feel it could be a good discussion which I will pursue on the Ninjutsu forum. I’m not going to continue asking BL for sources or about her experience as I’m sure she will continue to evade and besides it turns out that of August last year she was asking about contact details for Soke at Hombu on another forum so that sort of answers question about level of experience:

    The following is not a post off MAP
    Why ask this on a Kung Fu forum if you have a Shidoshi??
     
  11. Blooming Lotus

    Blooming Lotus Banned Banned

    cheers

    Btw : dim mak is not meant to be literally 1x touch = instant death every time, and anyone with half an ounce of knowledge of internal art and concepts knows this. Sorry you don't get it.

    BL
     
  12. Blooming Lotus

    Blooming Lotus Banned Banned

    Because I keep loosing the web site for a start with........... and second because I don't always have one local at all. I do accept too that alot of you here more than likely do have more bujinkan experience than I do......... almost as much as I accept you're not seeming to get half what I expect you should. It looks cut and sadly dry to me but Do you know your art or don't you??? I know the pride of bujikan and above many other arts , and when I can walk in with so little experience and "kill" the leading instructor of 14 + ( ??) yrs and an intermittant 10 + at Hombu on these very principals ( including satori ) after 2 lessons with him , I'm sad for you for this.

    cheers

    BL
     
  13. Blooming Lotus

    Blooming Lotus Banned Banned

    Re warm fire :-

    apparently you're just now getting one renewed yourselves.................

    and so the journey continues.........
     
  14. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    When? Where? In what text? At which Tai Kai? As I said what is your source for this? Just coming out and saying “he’s said it” is yet again being evasive, has he said it to you in person? How do you know he has said this? Come on BL it’s not such a hard question I mean I’m not asking you to discuss Kukan am I?



    ?????????

    Again no answer to a direct question







    Again no answer to a direct question


    Ok so the following is your answer to my question about why ask about contact details for Hombu if you have a Shidoshi?


    So what you are saying is that you don't have a fixed Dojo to train at? but in a previous post you said you are worried about giving out your Shidoshi details for fear of them getting harrasssed???? Which one is it you either have a Shidoshi or you don't????

    There’s no “more than likely about it” as of last august you where enquiring about Hombu details you weren’t training yet you are saying that people on this board with years more experience, Greg for example has be training for about 17 years!!!, aren’t getting what they should about it but you who doesn’t train on a regular basis and hasn’t been doing it very long have it all figured???

    Give it a rest please!

    Oh by the way again you haven’t answered any questions have you???

    Sorry but as far as I'm concerned all you are doing is trolling!!!! There hasn't been one concrete bit of info in any of your responses, you have refused to answer questions and provide sources and back up for your comments.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2005
  15. Funky Cherry

    Funky Cherry New Member

    Grimjack, could you give more information on your answers? Is there a reason it is silly that you have seen? or is that opinion of the art based on what you have heard from people?
     
  16. Defender

    Defender New Member

    Sorry gang, That was actually me who posted under the name Funky Cherry, was on her computer and forgot to change names, my bad. but the question still stands, I am asking the question though.
     
  17. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    Since the others are dealing with Blooming Troll, I will address your question in the spirit you made it.

    I think Dim Mak is silly based on what I have seen, read and experienced. The whole idea of meridians having some effect is not one very well based in reality. It is kind of like accupuncture. You can't prove it by the scientific method. Oh sure- some people get results- but some studieds indicate that the control group that was merely hit in random areas with the needles get just as good a result.

    I have had people try to hit me with meridian strikes. Unless they hit hard enough to move me, there was no effect. A strike alongside the kneck does cause problems, but that is not based on meridians.

    In short, stick with stuff that can be proved and explained.

    And I have a tape by Montigue on knife defense. It is right up there with the "In Living Color Karate Master" clip by Jim Carrey you can find on the internet. He actually teaches that master knife fighters will juggle a knife from one hand to the other and shows how to knock it away while it is in the air!!!!!
    :bang:
     
  18. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Blooming Lotus

    1) Please give a source for your comments with regards to Soke seeing Bujinkan Taijutsu being an internal Art?

    2) Please explain to us how this years Bujinkan theme relates to Dim Mak, as you and Grim, Greg, MR K and I are all Bujinkan students please do this using Bujinkan terminology.

    3) Please tell us your understanding of this years Bujinkan theme again as you and Grim, Greg, MR K and I are all Bujinkan students please do this using Bujinkan terminology.


    Thank you :Angel:
     
  19. Blooming Lotus

    Blooming Lotus Banned Banned

    :rolleyes:

    The reason I was banned at KFM, was because I wouldn't defile the art (with sex distractions and <<removed>> play relations ( from someone who's been widely axcknoeledgerd as an international expert and now makes himself to be a cowering idol worshipping , party mongering , sex persuing / simultaenously fearing unbalanced fool - of -a - freak ( just quietly ;) ) ) I approached to learn....?( and if you think otherwise, you're as much fool as you lead us to believe!!! ) and martial talkj because of the circus act you loud mouths create, frankly I'd rather not participate in anyway.

    AS for your need to the Soke declare Bujinkan internal , should he even really have to for you to see the connection???!!! The art is a harmoniously balanced blend of internal and external principals or it's not. At the end of the day, however applied, they're all the same thing expressed differently. If you don't get harmony, I can't help you okay!
    And you have zen in your bujinkan you say??? :rolleyes: Sure you do ! :cool:


    My point here rel;ates to the theme, because in class while drilling it with swords, shurikan, empty handed or whatever, I was kicking as* they didn't even know they had!!! It is Imo , a gross martial naeivity and in drills, it's banal !! When you add zen buddhist concepts of satori ( awarenmess and speed principals ) , it makes for a less fabulous class and hardly worth an experienced IMA student's investment! And that's how it's relative!


    Oh and for the record, I don't care if I understand your foreign tounge and further, I don't care if your a geek !! You called it from lack of pride and acknoledged value and therefore , I'm just going to support you! ;)

    cheers

    Blooming Lotus
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2005
  20. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Right. Enough of this. Back to topic, is there a connection between Internal Martial Arts and the Bujinkan? If so,what is it and what proof or documentation or even, your own opinion as to why.
    I'm currently in a country not known for it's internet connection, therefore it is not possible for me to go back and delete all posts that are off topic or are there for the purpose of bashing another member. So, this is the only warning I will give.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2005

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