Spear or staff

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Rider, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    I was just wondering what people generally liked or have been trained more with.

    Personally i've only had some basic spear training but my training with a staff (or bo what ever you wanna call it :p ) is more advanced and i would feel more confident in my skill in staff and spear than any other weapon.

    just wondering which people have been trained in more and which they prefer

    I prefer staff personally but thats likely because of my training, and knowing my luck eventually my eye ball would be on the tip of the spear :)

    Thoughts? :)
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Spear - it can be used as a staff with the added advantage you can stick it into people
     
  3. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    I was thinking that...

    Is a spear actually thinner than a staff because i personally have never noticed?


    but yeah...good point XD ... maybe when im just, i tiny bit less clumsy ...i remember first day of having a staff, black eye :p
     
  4. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    A lot of the FMA long stick / staff work is also spear. The two are one a lot of the time. Many people think you throw a spear you don't you throw a javelin which is thinner. A spear you use as a hand to hand weapon like the staff.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  5. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

  6. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Depends entirely on what type of spear you're talking about. And, if we're dealing with a Japanese Yari, nine foot of spear isn't really used the same way as a six foot stick (there were shorter ones, and the shorter you get, the closer to bojutsu it's use gets as well, but nine feet, or longer, was relatively standard). For practicality, though, bo (including jo and hanbo). Spear I love, but I recognise that it's more something for teaching about distance and targeting than anything else.
     
  7. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    It's all the same weapon for the most part, until size considerations come into play. In Paulus Hector Mair's staff section, what is called a "staff" in German is rendered "Pilum" (spear) in the latin version. The spear is just more devastating when used pokey-pokey. :)

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  8. Cable Focus

    Cable Focus Banned Banned

    Spear and staff are the same thing aren't they?
     
  9. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I suck at both. Let's get that out of the way. But I'd say staff. Simply because, if I'm thinking about improvisational weapons, "long and blunt" seems more likely to be available than "long and pointy."

    Obviously, a lot of stuff translates from one to the other. But there are pointed (ha!) differences between bladed and impact-based weapons. It's important not to exaggerate them. But I don't want to marginalize the distinctions either.
     
  10. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    My vote goes to spear if you are young and quick and staff if you are older and stronger.
     
  11. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Not in the European Tradition. Staff is used more like a two handed sword.

    The Bear.
     
  12. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    hmmmm...i understand a bit more now

    i think i do slightly like spear more because of the blade however i can see how staff is good in that "ap oweyn" said a improvised weapon would more likely not be spear shaped

    i think a one handed spear or smaller variation of spear would be more preferable to be, i know you lose reach which is a great advantage but there is slightly more control of the weapon which i like...might just be me however longer weapon and reach is an advantage i cannot ignor
     
  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think it's pretty easy to overestimate the reach advantage in one-on-one conflicts. Against a wall of spearmen, I can see the reach being a huge factor. But in any setting where sidestepping and triangular footwork is possible, a reach advantage is fleeting.

    We used to do mixed matches between staff and stick or staff and knife. To be clear, part of the results are undoubtedly because we were all better versed with the shorter weapons. But I do remember hearing similar things from JMA experts like Koyo.

    EDIT: Got distracted there for a minute. Earthquake.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  14. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    A short spear is also used in a completely different manner to a great spear. Ideally the short spear would be paired with a shield (being a one-handed weapon) which makes it much more effective in skirmishes, since you can also defend. Most of the great spear users I know will also carry a knife in their rear hand against the haft of the spear, so that as people attempted to move in close after trapping the spear, the spearman has the option to cut and slash.
     
  15. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Now that makes sense. Though it's not a strong argument for the reach advantage of the spear. Just the overall preparedness of the spearman.
     
  16. Rider

    Rider Everybody loves cakes! :D

    I agree too...

    in open warfare old style i think the range would make a large difference with a formation of Macedonian phalanx (if my history is correct they were the spearmen of alexander the great...i think anyway)...sorry thats the only example i can think of from the top of my head at this time


    but i see what you mean, when there isn't a huge formation backing you up the reach advantage would be...alot less of an advantage...a disadvantage if its too long (unless you snap it :p ... but thats cheating ;) )...but yeah good point :)
     
  17. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Once more, though, what type of spear are we talking about? Thrown (javelin)? Two-handed (Japanese Yari, Chinese spear)? One handed, or short (Roman Pilum, Greek short spear used in Hoplite formations, Japanese Te-boko)? Used in formation (Hoplite or phalanx), or used in single combat (Yari)? Taking just the Japanese forms as a basis, there is a huge range of types, ranging in size from a few feet (Te-boko, and it should be noted that for Japanese forms, there was no shield, as it was "built in" to the armour) to over 20 feet (battlefield Yari for some ashigaru), with a range of different blade shapes and forms, and so on. Just "spear" really isn't enough.

    Oh, and on the topic of getting past the distance of a spear, it's not really all that easy, even with traingular stepping and sidestepping. An example is shown here, from about 3:35 (two techniques):

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaDBi8mZtSE"]Ko-Budo - Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu - Part I | 天真正ä¼é¦™å–神é“æµ - YouTube[/ame]
     
  18. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    That's a good point - are we talking about the Western quarterstaff or the bo staff as well? Again, they're very different weapons with differing usage. Throwing shields into the mix changes the game completely again.
     
  19. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I didn't say it was easy. That said, I also didn't see a genuine effort to move laterally in that clip. The spearman clearly knew what he was doing. I daresay the swordsman did as well. But it looked to me like they were very deliberately keeping things linear. If stepping off the line is going to work, it generally needs to be done as the man with the longer range is stepping forward. Otherwise, the shorter range man is going to be trying to chase the longer range weapon before it reaches its optimal range again.
     
  20. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Ha, there is a reason for that.... linear works a lot better than off-line, mainly because by moving off-line you are giving the spearman the ability to retain distance. There is a particular action that is used here to close distance, though... but that's all I'm going to say here.
     

Share This Page