Discussion in 'Karate' started by Boom Headshot!, Jun 28, 2011.
I was typing this before I read yours
Read my above post ^^^^^
the vast majority of HUMANS will never need to defend themselves, or will be faced with such a situation where defending themselves might bring them more harm. it's equally useless for any man to even train in martial arts as it would be for women to spar hard.
Yet the male ego, would have them "falsely believe" that nothing could happened to them (in as much as a woman)
Machoism can get you killed.
Woman are more liklely to take better precaution, i guess
BINGO. :hail: You beat me to it. :google:
If you do not want to fight a woman in classs then don't. However some women are in class because they like to fight and/or need self defense or are healing from an abusive or victim situation. An attacker is not going to go easy because of gender. This is proof women have to train harder then men. The women that I train with are very serious about fighting, they have trained for years with great passion. Eating right,training, lifestyle, building endurance to take hits, bulding muscle mass to endure hits & training nine rounds to go three. It is an insult to these women to not spar them... they want to be better fighters. If you have the proper gender blind training, you will feel confident in your body and skills to endure sparring. If you are not fighting fit it doens't matter what gender you are.
I had constantly traumatized women in my advance classes (with sparring-per striking and grappling) and separate self-defense classes. I gave them no “special treatment”. I was even called a few names not worthy of my character. Some had left. As always, in the very beginning, I had informed everyone, how these classes were going to unfold. I had informed them of all the necessary “adjustments” they had to forgo, and also to dispel with some social, cultural, moral, etc., tangible. In other words, I kept telling them, the world is an ugly place and everyone must do whatever it took, not to be at a disadvantage.
Under no condition would I allow you to beat me without first taking me out for dinner and a movie. Handing someone a submission is just being easy.
Seriously though, look at your choice of words... "genuinely beat him"... "winning"... is sparring/rolling a competition to you?
Damn, I checked this thread last night and it was only about 2 pages but now it's exploded to 6 pages! I read through all the pages and many users addressed some of the causes as to why males may be less willing to spar to their full potential with a female partner. A main one was socialization in that hitting females is shunned. I come from a family where that idea also exists, so when I initially began sparring female partners I went easier on them. Later on, I realized that it was patronizing.
jumpfor joy, I do want to spar the females in the class because they are training partners and I don't believe their sex should matter in any way. Some of the females in the class have amazing head kicks, faster and less foreshadowed than some of the male students.
47MartialartMan brought up a point I had not thought of: the women may come from an abusive background, seek martial arts classes so they may learn to defend themselves and going easy on them just adds to their suffering via circular reasoning. That is, they may be hindered from a preventative solution due to their gender, which in all likelihood, is a cause for their suffering in the first place.
From an evolutionary biological view (the view you use when you say such a statement), I have to disagree with you. Males can develop greater muscle mass than females can, however, overall, females could develop more. The most salient example in mind is pregnancy because there are so many developmental changes for this, including movement of internal organs to a more biochemical view of inceasing gastrointestinal hormones (i.e. leptin).
Yeah..... don't be so easily offended JFJ...
What you are saying is that the stronger fighter should match the intensity of the weaker one... This is an often found sparring rule, that represents one facet of "equality" and has nothing to do with gender.
Another aspect is to go xx% of strength, power or speed.
Moving the value to 100% (all out), most women would be badly beaten up by most men; it has to do with gender physical and physiological differences (muscle mass & hormones)
gah, i meant CAPACITY for physical development. flipping redundant slip. and everything i know supports my own viewpoint, as far as the development of physical development referring to bone and muscle strengthening and growth is concerned. men have a greater capacity for it, so statistically there will be more big, strong men than there are big, strong women, although the latter exist, and not all men are big and strong.
True there is always someone bigger and stronger who you can't deal with, but you can drive that threshold up pretty far with realistic training. Note the word realistic.
I'm not sure what you mean about prevailing/surviving. Do you mean do I believe most women would lose a fight against most men? Yes, unless they have things like hyperandrogenism, or tendons that insert further from the joints than usual (I have that last one, haha).
Why do you feel so strongly that I should have men go easy? It's not helpful.
Nope but it is a test of what you learned and I want to know I genuinely passed that test. I don't want to get a free pass because I have ovaries and low muscle mass.
as someone who, even being male, weights less than 55 kilograms, and would probably have a normal weight of around 45 kilograms, sans exercise, is regularly outweighted by the scrawniest and smallest training partners, the argument applies to me as well. i do not get it easy, and i put the effort. i want to be secure in the knowledge that if i need to, i can take another human being and disassemble it with my bare hands in order to protect my physical integrity and that of others. will i ever need it? i don't know, but it's the actual point of martial training, independently of the reasons for doing it, and i take my martial training seriously. i will not develop that ability by being taken lightly because i'm a short-ass. neither will a woman by being taken lightly because she's a woman. in training, all are equal and should be judged and helped individually.
Back to the Original Question, it seems like most of the posters agree with your viewpoint Boom. (Can I call you Boom? Or do you prefer Mr. Headshot! ?)
I am a female, and I want to be treated exactly the same as male students of the same rank and ability. I'm so appreciative of all the male posters who have already put forth this view. It's frustrating not to mention embarrassing to get singled out because of your gender. None of the women I train with, from high rank black belts to beginning orange belts, would ever respond to ANYTHING with "....but I'm a girl." Frankly, I'm annoyed that some women at your dojo want gender-based treatment. That attitude isn't doing the rest of us any favors.
Out of curiosity, is there a unifying factor among the students who support the double standard? Age? Rank? Favorite snack food?
southpaw's answer was a good one. in addition, i put forth lack of critical thinking ability.
maybe some do, but I've never met any like that.
Yeah, but you don't look sick. You look fit and healthy.
WITH YOU! I flat out HATE it when I'm doing perfectly fine at something and in steps one of the seniors saying I need to have things made easier for me...um, no I don't, these were guys my height and only like 10kg heavier and I wasn't even having difficulty...
You would hate me then
I'm always telling the younger ones to slow it down during rolling so that they work technique and not use strength and speed to compensate for bad technique. Of course that is with half-speed rolling because it tends to ramp up to 3/4 speed with the younger ones very quickly.
Separate names with a comma.