Some thoughts on the current sport-based arrogance of boxing

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by TheUnnecessaryEvil, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. TheUnnecessaryEvil

    TheUnnecessaryEvil Banned Banned

    For a martial art that is so essential and relevant to the potential development of other martial arts, I can't help but notice how stuck up its own butt boxing is.. specifically within the context of why a person wishes to train.

    I remember going to my first (and only) boxing training session a town or three over from where I live, and the first thing I was asked was why I want to train. I told the guy that I'm tired of walking around in my day-to-day afraid of everything that moves and that I wish to incorporate an effective fighting art into my lifestyle.

    You could practically see that computer buffering wheel turning in his head as he tries in vain to wrap his little brain around why someone would possibly want to train for fighting if not for the sake of his precious sport.

    This wasn't just a me thing. My girlfriend told me a very similar tale. I will now quote her directly:

    "We walk into the room and the guy's like 'So why do you want to train?' I tell him about how I'm being bullied and how I need to learn to fight for myself and stand my ground. You could practically see the smoke coming out of his ears."

    It was later into this same conversation that I was introduced to this incel-level term called a "Palooka." A quick Google search made me lose respect for these people even more. It's basically a pejorative for a fighter who is either non-professional or tries to make a living off of fighting through the "incorrect" channels.

    So.. boxers.. let me get this as straight as an arrow. The world is a mess of crazy right now.. with aggressive, tantrum-throwing lunatics left, right and center.. and you believe that the only valid use for one of the most effective, tried and tested bare-handed combat disciplines in the world is some SPORT?!

    What, are you a bunch of old men up on mountains like "Itis a'dishonorabur to use one's a'skirrz against an inferior oppo-nent."

    Yeah well listen up Mr. TheTrueTestofLifeisTheRing, that "inferior oppo-NENT" is about to make living your life needlessly difficult and/or dangerous simply because of his/her precious feelings and the fact that their mother didn't swallow them when she had the chance.

    But wait.. nevermind. The only use for combat skills is a game. Lol I forgot. How could I be so silly?
  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Modern boxing is a sport, funded by sports bodies and grants for the most part.

    Coached to a set of sport rules.

    Coached by a set of coaches governed by a sport body.

    And you are wondering why self defense doesn't enter their mind for a reason to train.

    Who exactly is the stupid silly one in your post exactly, the ones coaching a sport for sports sake or the person turning up expecting a sport to be something it's not.

    You might as well turn up at a fencing club looking for self defense tips on how to deal with baseball bats and knifes
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So you gave up after one lesson because of what someone else thought of you?

    Oh well, nevermind, they can spend more time training other people how to be better at boxing instead of the people who give up too easily.

    Well done for proving their point!
  4. TheUnnecessaryEvil

    TheUnnecessaryEvil Banned Banned

    Really dude? They made it clear that I was only going to get the minimum quality of training unless I agreed to join in their little team.

    So yes, I ditched those morons and found a place where you get trained regardless of if you want to live life PLAYING GAMES.
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Yep that's how real fight teams work, it's highly likely whenever you have ended up, isnt even half as good, or maybe it is and you've been lucky.

    It's krav you do now isn't it?
  6. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    Threads that start by breaking down a style and criticizing every component always seem to stem from the high inexperienced.

    Maybe focus on the areas you need to improve and how you can do it.

    Did you go to a boxing class to learn how to punch? It sounds like you went with an agenda other than that.
    Shmook and Botta Dritta like this.
  7. TheUnnecessaryEvil

    TheUnnecessaryEvil Banned Banned

    Your comparison to fencing falls so flat it isn't even funny. Fencing was a major part of my time in college and I'll tell you right now, the most you'll get on the strip is a small breakage in the skin and or a really nice, tender bruise.

    The reason I say that is because you might as well be talking about point karate. Boxing isn't point karate. Look up "boxing on the street." Now look up "point karate on the street." Come on, man.

    That only applies to people who rip on the style's effectiveness. You'll never see me doing that. I have nothing but respect for the martial art itself.. which is why it frustrates the hell out of me that people are still treating it like it's only a sport. So much wasted potential.

    No I didn't go just to learn how to punch. I wanted to learn how to move and think in a fight.. how to take a hit and how to be comfortable while uncomfortable.
  8. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    I've been on the coach's end of this conversation multiple times and what was going through my head was not "use this combat sport for fighting, THAT'S UNPOSSIBLE" but "how can I, during the three classes this dweeb shows up to before I never see him again, minimise the amount of his street fighting wisdom I have to listen to".
  9. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Well-Known Member

    Hmm...who is stuck up his own butt? Methinks there is a kettle-pot thing here..

    I’ll be honest: you sound like a problem student, to me. I’ll give you a couple of points here that I can agree with: I also have no interest in competition, and I believe that there ought to be room for those who don’t want to compete. But if competition is what that school prioritizes, then you simply went to the wrong school for you. That’s life. Find a different school. And try to drop that chip from your shoulder. That kind of attitude will get you ostracized from every school out there.
  10. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    axelb likes this.
  11. TheUnnecessaryEvil

    TheUnnecessaryEvil Banned Banned

    If you've encountered a reasonable number of boxing gyms that aren't competition-specific, that is something I would genuinely LOVE to hear.

    That's good for you and all that.
    However.. I will have you know.. that not once did I use the phrase "4 da streetz." The big one was "confidence."
  12. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    The perception you have of what you are doing, compared to what you have written in this thread does not say that.

    Even in this quote you are outlining what you perceive as holes in the effectiveness because it is run as a sports.

    After my first few boxing lessons I was well aware of the areas it would not be direct use, but I wanted to learn how improve the aspects of my game from those who excel in that area.

    If you don't like it, or it doesn't give you want you expected from one solitary lesson, then maybe focus your energy and critical attitude on any gaping holes in your own game.

    Maybe even start a thread about what you feel is missing and makes you feel vulnerable and where to train those areas and the wealth of experience in MAP can help you with choices to direct you towards being a better martial artist.
    Grond likes this.
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Actually it's spot in, but I could have used freestyle wrestling (or rugby for that matter) and it would have applied equally, you just can't see it.
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Boxing gyms are a broad church and no one size fits all I think. Getting into boxing due to self defence reasons, bullying or wanting to know how to "fight" is (or was?) a pretty common reason for getting into boxing so I'm not sure why it's so looked down on by some. Some of the best boxers ever had exactly that motivation at first. Muhammad Ali got into boxing after being robbed as a kid and wanting to be able to whup someone (although he was 12 at the time). Boxing has always been known as the noble art of self defence too. And plenty of pragmatic martial artists look to some boxing training to get better "hands". It's not an unusual motivation as far as I can see but probably best not to express it so plainly or matter of factly and just get on with the training.
    That said I'm sure responses to the OP's approach will vary massively. I know the couple of boxing gyms where I live have entry level classes for people looking to get fit or have a white collar match or two. You might get an odd look if you expressed your motivations but your money would be as good as anyone else's.
    But then there are also undoubtedly competition focused gyms that will barely look at you for the first 6 months as so many people can't hack it and they focus on the "fighters" and prospects. You might get a pointer on your jab if you make the right impression but will generally be expected to just train.
    A gym focused on amateur boxing won't be suitable. A gym run by a fairly big name or a big name fighter training there probably won't be suitable either.
    Grond likes this.
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It's boxing not flower arranging. There are many pejorative terms in boxing. Bum. Can. Journeyman. Jobber. Boxing is not just a sport or martial's a job. Jobs all over often have terms for people that don't do the job (civvies for example). Especially jobs where there is a certain cache or toughness involved doing that job well.
    Grond likes this.
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Can I just say, we need to be using the word mook more, both palooka and mook are criminally underused in everyday conversation.

    I for one will attempt to use both today, and everyday for the rest of the week, wish me luck!
    Shmook, Grond and axelb like this.
  17. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    The last time I called someone a moon they claimed it was a racial slur against Italians.

    Knowing better, I had to educate the person about it, although in retrospect I guess it sort of sounds racist if you never heard it before.

    Anyways, having dealt with many a mook in my day, I have to say I ran into the vast majority of them in boxing, so I sort of see where OP is coming from, there is most def a lot of arrogance in boxing and the culture produces some really high horsed cats. But the beauty of boxing is that practically none of them last long on that horse...eventually we all get knocked off, for the greater good of the sweet science.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  18. hewho

    hewho Valued Member

    Boxing would have got you some confidence around hitting and getting hit, moving, and being comfortable in uncomfortable situations. The same is true of more or less anywhere with regular full contact training. I was lucky enough to do it as a teen, in a club for teens/kids, none of whom ever went on to compete. I've been to boxing gyms since where they are competition oriented, and if you're not in their fight team or advanced class then it's basically a circuit session where you might rack up 5 minutes of time with the coach(es). I've also been to smaller boxing clubs, where you get plenty of time with the coach(es)

    In something like Judo (which is also a combat sport) they are also focused on a competition ruleset, not self defence first and foremost (obviously there will be exceptions). Now, you tend to get a little more time with the coach, or an experienced player here. Going to a boxing, or judo, session, particularly at a competition focused club, and wanting the primary benefit to be self defence is a little like turning up to a football club, and wanting the primary benefit to be improved 800 metre times. You'll get it as a side benefit, but it's not really the goal of the sport.
  19. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    Ah, an unnecessary post from an allegedly unnecessary evil, how appropriate...

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