So you wants to study Silat?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Orang Jawa, May 6, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Garuda

    Garuda Valued Member

    To be honest when people or other MA-ists say things about pencak silat like: Isn't PS that dancing thing, or PS is not effective in real combat. I just smile and nod yes! Because I have the feeling that I do not have to proof myself to others or I do not have to convince others. The most important thing is that I know myself what the value is of PS. It is better that people underestimate you, then it is easier to surprise them.

    Also regarding all the "fighting" on this forum. My question is why? If you are happy with the teacher you are training with, why should you convince others? In the end everyone finds his own way.

    I am happy with the way that I chose, but next to that I accept that other persons have other ways regarding PS. And that always makes my curious. I love to hear about how other persons practice PS and how they experience it. It also makes me proud to know that PS is so diverse and has so many faces and I realize that PS might be the only MA that is so diverse and has so much variation.

    So much to learn, so little time.


    Garuda...
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2006
  2. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Lettle from Pendekar Sanders
    In regards to the slanderous remarks once again made by the same people I will leave this brief reply. WOW their is an omitted word on my certificate !!!!!



    First of all, I'm not the authority in Cimande, nor of my teacher and his teacher's teacher. The three generation silat students that don't have the certificate nor the tittle Pendekar. You have to take it like it is. :)

    I too was surprise to see William Sanders proudly showing off his certificate sign by pak RT/RW...That's bizzare, indeed. RT/RW/Hansip it got nothing to do with silat.

    I give an example the little function of RT, RW, and Lurah. If you want to have Indonesian Driver License, You have to go to RT with the form, give him 50c US he will sign the form, then go to RW $1, then finally to Lurah for approx $5 US, you will get your Driver License before you say WOW :) If you give the Lurah $100 US, he will sign anything you wants, as long as you take it back to the USA. :rolleyes:

    I'm not accusing anyone doing that, but the certificate was the alarm for all of us who learn Silat in Indonesia. William Sanders may be the first foreigner to have the Pendekar certificate for all I know. :bang:

    I asked my teacher if he knows a person by the name of Pendekar Mama Sukarma. He did not know of him as the well known Pendekar in Cimande. It does not mean he knows everyone in silat. So it goes both way. :)

    If all of us just study silat, can talk about it and can perform the way it suppose to be. Suddenly the certificate and the title don't mean a thing :)

    So as Brother Steve said. You have to silent your gun before asking some one else to stop firing...something like that :)

    I could be wrong too, No punts intended!
    Peace and Be well
    Tristan
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2006
  3. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Mr Sanders' Letter ....hmmmm

    Warm Salaams to all,

    I did actually send an email to Sanders earlier this year (through Liam in Ireland) but did not get any answer. So several pints that could have been solved in private now need to come out in the open. Let us examine Sanders' letter paragraph by paragraph....I have coloured his statements in orange.

    Lettle from Pendekar Sanders
    In regards to the slanderous remarks once again made by the same people I will leave this brief reply. WOW their is an omitted word on my certificate !!!!! What proof we now all have that printers make errors and are not infallible gods of the printed material. Surely that proves the intent of the certificate is not valid ,


    Bram says: well, please show just one other certificate with spelling errors or important words ommited? I have never seen one, but then I am not a seminar giving Pendekar :) ... This is not slander if you know the meaning of the word. You come with claims that are not backed up. You are slandering the traditions of Cimande and I am merely pointing this out to the world.

    Surely that proves the real originator of the Certificate, the highly esteemed well know Pendekar Mama Sukarma's words on it have no meaning . Surely that proves it means nothing that along with him, the Chief of Cimande village and every single elder in Cimande village who signed it means nothing.

    Bram says: Well, firstly you have mistaken the village petty beaurocrats as elders! This is hillarious! Secondly, Mama is an honorific tittle, so Pendekar Mama is a funny name to address someone. I was in Bogor earlier this year and no silat elder I asked knew of Pak Sukarma. Obviousely he is more well known in California than in Cimande.

    It’s a simple thing for any one who doubts the authenticity of this to take their complaints to Pendekar Mama in Indonesia. He told me he has been waiting for anyone to show up and question him but so far no one has. He will show you up close and personal if that omitted word really means he did not issue that certificate, or if it really means that a simple printing error happened by a human printer, which word by the way has zero meaning in the actual wording of what was granted.


    Bram says: no the word does not have zero meaning. What a blasphemous and ignorant comment from a great Cimande Pendekar!

    Being so petty of course illustrates a desperate person with another motif and other agenda altogether which has nothing to do with admitting it was really issued by a top ranking Master of Cimande and with the value of what is taught or how hard I have worked to bring a fantastic art to my students.

    Bram says: up to you to judge my motives and agenda just as anyone can question the wierd Cimande presented as real in your website. No Cimande practitioner recognizes anything there! As for me, when I was in Bogor I met with many silat elders and showed them what was going on in the web. They asked me personally to continue to point out the faults on the web to the foreigners who bring dishonour to Cimande by not only cleansing it from Islam but mixing it with the occult and Alistair Crowley, Untung Surapati and who knows what.

    Of course the other parts of the certificate are also not mentioned about building friendship and brotherhood of humanity without discrimination as to race , nationality , religion, sex, or creed as long as a belief in the almighty God is held. Yes the certificate also says that, but is that not more important to dwell on besides some so called omitted word? Would not those parts of the certificate not benefit us to follow?

    Bram says: Personally I feel those statements to be words that come from an American rather than a traditional Cimande elder who has alot of Islamic Calligraphy on the certificate to. It is a strange sentence to have on the certificate, just like the signatures there. However, the certificate mentioned only gives authority to teach the Pusaka Karuhun Tari Kolot Cimande, not to use it to make something up.

    By the way one does not need to know Indonesian to learn about the Keris etc. Translation has made the world able to communicate with each other just fine for some time.

    Bram says: ladies and gentleman, what does this arrogant sentence say to you? Talk about keris, the most mystical object in Jawa culture, only through translators? Wow! How disrespectful to knowledge!

    My seminar schedule is always posted on my website and the doors are open. As always I HIGHLY recommend that anyone who wishes to compare what they do to what we do to attend a seminar from both arts , by a tape of both ways, examine them closely and ask yourself which way would I rather move and fight like and then make that choice and have fun . I am more interested in training and teaching and helping those who want to learn than to bully boy tactics and nit picking of unimportant items which is why we continue to grow world wide.

    Pendekar Sanders


    Bram says: talk about motives and so on! At the end all you want to do is invite people to (pay) to come to your seminars. Well, you have yourself filmed on your website. Is that the way you want people to move and call it Ciimande? Please get real and tell the truth. Cimande Pusaka is really Cimande Sanders...is it not? From looking at your website it would seem that you know little about the culture of silat and particularly Cimande and the Sunda people. Why would a poor Indonesian immigrant like myself want to pay to go to a seminar of yours. I believe only geniouses can learn martial arts from seminars. I am not very clever.

    Hope to continue this public correspondence with you, Sir!

    Hormat saya,

    Bram.
     
  4. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    Hi Kiai
    I thought I would address some of your point here.


     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2006
  5. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    reply from Pendekar Sanders

    I was asked today to post this reply from my teacher

    my reply to Tristen .

    Once again I am forced to state the obvious .

    Pendekar Mama is well known in Cimande Village please refer to Forum Member Bobby Edmunds(Bobster ) who visited Cimande village and went to Pendekar Mama'a home where low and behold was my picture as well as many of my students . To say he is not well known their is a distortion of the facts BIG TIME “ plain and simple “. Ask the Mayor of Cimande Village or ANY elder their. Ask an important person in Cimande there. I can not say for sure just an average guy on the street knows him, if I tried such a ruse of course that would be a big deception. It would be like me going to one of your home towns talking to a friend of mine who might live their and asking if they Knew you if they said no say UH HAHH that proves he is not a big guy in Cimande. Don’t take my word ask the mayor or any Cimande elder then you will see for yourself the deception. Ask Bobby who was there himself.

    The other people who WINTESSED the signatures on my certificate were there to verify it, were from Cimande village and they where WITNESES TO PENDEKAR MAMA'S SIGNATURE. Have you not heard of getting a witness on an official paper?

    Again I must say to slander the Cimande elders who signed this with the inference of taking a bribe is not only a cheap shot but in very poor adat and Hormot to those people. In addition must that witness be a grand Puba to be a witness? Obvious answers to once again the plain and simple agenda of various people to insinuate I did not get the certificate or make fun of it etc etc etc.., This has NO other use but to try and cast doubts on myself and my organization and is nothing more than another cheap shot . WHY ? Maybe certain people are furious they don’t have any recognized teachers authorizing them. Maybe as it sounds their is Jealousy that I am not an Indonesian but still was given merit, oh but those don’t count . College degrees don’t count, hell why even get a drivers licensee or take that test it’s just a hunk of paper just let anyone drive. Who cares if your Dr. did not graduate from medical school its just a piece of paper . uh uh. . Or maybe its just those singing the tale of the fox and the sour grapes, I don’t have it so yours is no good. I hope not and choose to think better of people , but these are not nice things to do , these are not things done in the spirit of working together, these have no positive effects on anyone . They are simply mean spirited.

    From my first teacher Guru John Malter we were given certificates as a way for us to measure where we were in the art, and to carry away from the school so others could see we achieved a certain level according to our teachers . I have found in the USA a lot of people who poo poed such things as being not necessary as far as their past was concerned were eventually found to have made most of what they did up, or seriously distorted what the art was . I have tried to give my students NOY ONLY an art they loved and admired but a real history of who agreed with what I taught and said so. Funny these also come directly from Indonesia , yet then it is parlayed they are all a bunch of bribe taking crooks ??????Seems to really get under certain peoples skins, HMMM.

    Now as far as the art is concerned I already stated their is nothing and I mean nothing better for any prospective student to look , REALY look, at the arts, and then decide which they like . I certainly favor that for sure. The addition of recognition by a leading worlds class authority also helps one to know that years later you wont find out I made the whole thing up along with a bunch of other lies, you can just ask Pendekar Mama if I know Cimande or not.Wait till my new book comes out on Mas Jud and that reality comes to light, and then many will see why no certificates were had. Seems they could not bribe any one to give those ones out, if it was so easy to do. Some won’t like it but it is what the relatives of Mas Jud said. Again I will list names and locations.

    Read my latest letter on my website where I said it is time for a new leaf to be turned and all are welcome even my most hated enemy in the past. I welcome you all to train, what more can I say or offer? Any of you , show me a post on this forum where myself or one of my students has ""Fired : a shot at you or your schools that was not a self defense reply to an open attack, cheap shot derogatory remark ????????? Let's see where we fired this shot on this forum?????? We will be waiting a long time!!! Now if you can’t find one please admit this was not an accurate and you were wrong. I am sitting by my computer for those who said this to put it out their now????? Even on my own training forum I REMOVE before they get posted ANY slanderous remarks or cuts on ANY silat teacher despite what ever I may believe. ALL of my letters on my own web site (not on this forum) where in response to attacks that came our way. This forum is supposed to have a policy of no personal attacks, those that violate that are rule breakers, criminals of sorts who hold no value for the rules, what does that say about your ethics gentleman?????????

    Many of you have been warned and warned and warned but you continue on and then have the nerve to say I have not put my shot gun away , its no wonder the world is in turmoil. Once again I am forced to reply in self defense to a cheap shot attack, those that have eyes can see this clearly.

    Mr. Sanders
     
  6. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    Why? Why? Why?

    Greetings to you all,

    With all do respect to you all, why so much fighting? Maybe I shouldn't ask why though. It is sooooo hard (at least in my corner of the world) to meet other people willing to train martial arts, let alone devote thier lives to teaching it to others. As a begginer to Silat, it disheartens me to see folks of such high calibur fighting about such petty issues. There is way too much future knowledge and understanding that is going to be trampled on and left in the dirt if this doesn't stop soon! Like Guru Liam said, we lose many teachers every year to father time. Opinions on a keyboard are one thing, in person they're another. I may or may not get slammed by other members of the tribe I train in by this, but oh well. I had an opportunity to meet Pendekar Sanders and Guru Besar Jerry Jacobs in Mi. last year. Call it what you want, but what they do is a "real" martial art. The thing IS, they are ALL generous, friendly, and kind. They also are VERY dedicated to what they are learning. They are very skilled fighters and well learned martial artists to boot!
    Why fight about it? We are ALL missing the boat BIG TIME! Silat is such a miniscule fraction of the MA community. We should all be sticking togather rather than these silly fueds. Even the "well I saw so-and-so's tapes, and he don't have nothin" arguments are very stupid too. I have seen mediocre tapes from my camp, as well as Pendekar Sanders and quite a few others. The thing is, in person, all these folks are much more talented than video leads one to believe. The proof is in the puddin'! Go see for YOURSELF, in person before you lash out. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, the politics that is. Is the person a GOOD teacher, or not? Does this person turn out skilled fighters?Teachers? Do people truly enjoy training with this person? If the answer is yes, then you have indeed found yourself a treasure. For as much time and energy as some of you do spend bashing one another, and "disproving certificates""lineages""credentials" etc., wouldn't you, your students, and future pesilat benifit from an extended hand? I mean, a true wise leader in my eyes will always find room to grow. There is a serious lack of this in the entire world-period. History is best when made, not dwelled upon. Why live in the past? How many silat camps would benifit soooo much from brotherhood and sharing, if not only to gain more people to train with (which I stated above there is a serious lack of!!!).
    Why spend this much time in the negative? Try being friends with the martial artist that you are bashing, you just might learn something and grow just when you thought you couldn't any more!
    Just the worthless opinion of a layman so don't take this too seriously if a narrow-mind leads you to do so.
    John
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2006
  7. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    Mr Sanders,

    There is really only one part of your post that I want to react to. We had an 'e-mail/mail by post' discussion about 15 years ago and It's clear since that we will never agree on most matters relating to silat. Your last post triggers me though to respond.

    Using words like: 'don’t have any recognized teachers authorizing them' implies that teachers who are not (widely) recognized are not of the same standard and (local) authority as yours probably/obviously are. If you ask me this doesn't acknowledges a historic perspective on Indonesian society/history and more specificly silat. There might be a few hundred registered silat styles nowadays but there still are a lot of teachers who are not registered to date and will not be in the future. This type of teacher will never be widely recognized because it simple isn't part of their goals and mindset. Teachers who have chosen to teach the way silat was taught in the 'old days'. In the old and traditional way the acknowledgement from a teacher towards his students was almost never, if ever, backed up by formal documents and exams. There simply was a teacher and a very select number of serious students and no need for formal affairs Dr./MBa's and licenses, these are western inventions not Indonesian. A lot of teachers still don't feel the need. Does this lack of formal affairs open the door to clouded histories and bogus claims? It sure does and if you really know Indonesian society it's probably best to accept this as a fact of life. And believe me this is not meant as an insult to the Indonesians (and by this the bigger part of my own family)


    You present an aspect of the Indonesian silat world as it has become more or less since the independence, a national organization and up to thousands of students under one maha guru/Pendekar etc. Sure the bigger schools gave the Indonesian silat a identity towards the 'world' but there is a bigger picture than these big schools with their 'modern'organizations. You should seriously doubt if these modern school offer a comprehensive insight of silat's origins. Like myself there are a whole lot of teachers whose primary goal is to keep their art alive by raising a succesor, acknowledgement by the outside world has never been one and never will.

    Pekir
     
  8. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    shotgun ...

    Wait till my new book comes out on Mas Jud and that reality comes to light, and then many will see why no certificates were had. Seems they could not bribe any one to give those ones out, if it was so easy to do. Some won’t like it but it is what the relatives of Mas Jud said. Again I will list names and locations.

    Precisely my point about the shotgun. Pendekar Sanders is writing a book that is going to, unless I miss my guess entirely, purport that the de Vries and de Thouars families did not study silat with Mas Djut -- either to any depth, or at all -- and that all the history they claim is, sadly, false.

    Somehow, they came up with a working martial art they called "Sera," apparently out of thin air, attributed to to people with whom they did not train, and carried it with them to the new world.

    Frankly, I would be happier if I thought that was the case.

    For some years, Pendekar Sanders's main attack dog Guru Besar Jeff Davidson, no longer affliated with the Cimande Pusaka organization, offered that there was no such style as Sera(k) at all, and the whole thing was a huge fraud. I have no doubt at all where he might have gotten that idea.

    One might understand how those of us who have spent a decade or more training in Sera might find such comments less than refreshing ...

    How this kind of thing turns over a new leaf and makes for peace is beyond my ken: So sorry, Steve, but your art's elders are all liars, and you and all of the Sera students in America have been gulled. But, hey, you are welcome to train with us in the real stuff anyhow ...

    A book from somebody who has little use for our version of the art, due to a teacher in it who admittedly caused him great pain and financial hardship, is certainly not going to be taken as objective reporting by others in that art, leastways it won't be by me. I have heard Pendekar Sanders's evidence and find it less than compelling.

    And there is nothing I say here that I haven't said directly to him via email, nor would feel any qualms about saying to him in person .


    Many of you have been warned and warned and warned but you continue on and then have the nerve to say I have not put my shot gun away , its no wonder the world is in turmoil. Once again I am forced to reply in self defense to a cheap shot attack, those that have eyes can see this clearly.

    And I would stand corrected if your teacher can point out where I took cheap shots at him in public once he and I had our discussions. I've offered no slander, nor libel (the former is spoken, the latter that which is written), simply disagreement with many of his points, and that old saw "Because my teacher said so." doesn't cut much ice on either side ...

    My points stands. If you want peace, you don't keep shooting. You don't offer provocative actions, such as this upcoming book is certain to do. For Pendekar Sanders to offer that he doesn't realize this book will just add fuel to the fire seems more than a bit disengenous.


    [/QUOTE]
     
  9. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    That's one of the biggest problems with martial arts in general. The old gradations roughly translated as "Has it down but still needs a little supervision", "He's got it. We stand behind him" and "Grand Old Master who gets moved to the head of the line for dinner because he's an inspiration to us all". It made a lot of sense.

    At last year's training session for his extended Silat family my teacher recognized one of his students as a having gotten to that second stage. I think that's his first completed student.
     
  10. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    Tearing Down Walls

    Hello Again,


    After typing my last post, I had to step away a little while and cool off. The reality of what's going on here is kinda sad. It boils down to the fact that schools, cabangs, alirans, camps, tribes, etc, are bashing each other mostly because thier leaders have an axe to grind with the leader of the other 'camp'. Most of it has to do with matters regarding money, in some way, shape, or form. It would seem as martial artists, if the problem stemmed from the style, or quality of fighting, it could be solved by 'duking it out'. But, that is not the case here. The residual side effect of this is, we (the students of these tribes) get caught in the middle of the "shooting". Some students even start feeling that they need to help with bearing that 'axe' without ever really understanding why they're grinding it. The fact is is that we all end up losing out in the end. Think of how much more we could grow if we were all friends, friendly and kind to each other. How much (even the old grumpy ones) more everyone could grow if it were...

    Like I said before, I am sad that so much more can be gained from the opposite of the undertones going on here in the MAP Silat forum. A GOOD friend of mine from Traverse City, Mi. had to remind me today that I needed to look for the "fun" in my martial art again. Life is bad enough with the pressures of work and the cost of living, the friggin terrorists trying to blow up planes and all of the meaningless wars being fought right now. I started in MA to relieve the stress from all of that. I didn't need to learn how to fight. Experience taught me that fighting just happens even if you don't have a PHD, or "certificate" to do it. I got in to relieve the stress of this world, and to get an 'upper hand' on it in my world. I come to this forum for advice and guidence. My teacher lives 2000 miles from me in the Pacific Northwest for cry-ay. Any positive advice or guidence that I can pick up along the way benifits me, and my fellow students. When they read a negative post from here or other sites, or it comes up in conversation at a gathering, it usually ends with a *sigh* "oh well that's totally bogus, what can you do?". A negative note indeed. I know we have all been in that particular conversation at seminars and gatherings when we engage in small talk. The fun part of this all is in doing and learning. That's why I'm in it, or why I got into it and have to find my way back to...

    My buddy from Mi. also asked me to announce something that may come as a shock to those in the drama pool.
    In October this year, Guru Stevan Plinck will be in Traverse City for a Sera workshop ALONG SIDE OF Guru Jerry Jacobs from Pukulan Cimande Pusaka. That's right folks! I believe that these men are above all of the nonsense. And that they, and all the rest of us have everthing we ever got into all of this martial art stuff for to benifit from it too!
    Bill G. says that you are ALL INVITED to come on up, and share in this.
    BEFORE a moderator pulls the plug on this post, THIS IS NOT A 'PLUG' for the workshop. This is basiclly historical as far as current events are going. He asked me to Let Tristan (Oran Jawa)to know that he is invited to come, as are all of you! If you are interested, email Bill at mi8palms@hotmail.com for all of the info. Who knows, maybe this will be the day when walls crumble...
    Thanks,
    John
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2006
  11. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter


    I'm with this, I hope its a good turnout, and goes some way to rebuild walls in the Silat community.

    With that in mind, I am tempted to close this thread, but at the same time I am interested in reading differing opinons globally, and not just rely on one sightline on something. There are good things to come from open, frank discussions, and threats/bully tactics only undermine the respect and integrity of the person doing those actions. As an impartial moderator, I will allow the discussion, but will not allow personal attacks of other members.

    If things get worse, or I deem the discussion unproductive, I WILL close the thread.

    Sarge
     
  12. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Just a minor correction, John. His name is spelled Stevan Plinck.
     
  13. realitychecker

    realitychecker New Member

    Sorry Todd, Sorry Guru Plinck! I was just so passionate about that post I blew all kinds of spellin'. Thank you!
     
  14. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    my reply to Tristen .

    Once again I am forced to state the obvious


    Yada, yada, yada...
    I was trying to be respectful and telling it like it is. What you do is not a traditional Cimande at best, what you are doing is Sander's Cimande. Be proud of it, Period.

    Do you know who is Tries Sutrisno? He knew silat and he did not know Sukarma.

    Not all people in Cimande Village studied Silat.
    Not all people in Indonesian knows silat.
    Ambasadors? Indonesian people they would happy to see anything that move resembles Silat. it does not meant the justify that what you are doing is right.

    William, I heard about you, I saw your videos, I reserve my comments about it. I wish I can meet you one to one and asked some question about the meaning of your movement/self-defense techniques...Just you and me in a friendly way. Seriously :bang:

    nuff said.
    Tristan
     
  15. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    John said:
    BEFORE a moderator pulls the plug on this post, THIS IS NOT A 'PLUG' for the workshop. This is basiclly historical as far as current events are going. He asked me to Let Tristan (Oran Jawa)to know that he is invited to come, as are all of you! If you are interested, email Bill at mi8palms@hotmail.com for all of the info. Who knows, maybe this will be the day when walls crumble...
    Thanks,
    ***************
    Thank you John...
    Eventhough I have spend all my adulthood in the USA, I'm still keep the Orang Jawa tradition. I'm a lot older than the presenter and spend more time in silat than them. They should have to come to my gathering first before I come to them. That's just the way it is. :)
    BTW. I knew Stevan Plinck and I do respect him greatly.
    No punts intended.
    Tristan
     
  16. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    We're off to Reno today for a fun weekend with Guru Plinck and Guru Bob Vanatta. If only based on the folks who signed up in advance, it's going to be a great reunion of sorts. I'm looking forward to meeting some internet personalities too! I'll post a weekend report when we get back home, but I already know it's going to be a blast. I'm guaranteed to pick up some nuggets to add to my American Dutch Indo Fu.
     
  17. Buddy

    Buddy Valued Member

    Mike,
    If you get this in time, please send my respects to Guru Steve and Guru Bob.
    Buddy
     
  18. Tuankaki

    Tuankaki Valued Member

    Got it, will do Buddy.
     
  19. rizal

    rizal Valued Member

    You know, the steam in this thread reminded me when I went back to sumatra to visit my teacher. (it's an iseng thing, got a week furlough after a project and some extra money so....)

    My teacher was surprised to see me. After pleasantries, he insisted me to stay an extra day so I can show my penca' in front of his student. After the exhibition (both kembangan and fighting), my teacher praised me in front of his students for maintaining my training.

    In the end of the day, I asked him pointedly if I can teach. He smiled and said, "For those things I taught, you can never be a teacher." This of course somewhat broke my heart. But then he said while holding both of my hands, "but for those things you learn, you may."

    Confused yet? Me too. But I realize that while I somewhat know the syllabus, I cannot teach it since my understanding of it is different for the founders. Yet it doesn't mean that my silat is bad, only that it is uniquely mine and based on the principles I develop.

    The point? it is sad that many new schools today have so little confidence of themselves that they must resort to 'certification' and 'acknowledgement'. If you believe your style is silat, then teach it. Be proud of who and what you are. Sure, tracing your lineage is important, but it doesn't mean anything if your silat is bad. Every practicioner will see it and judge it as is.

    And the one big organization with one Mahaguru? I think those guys watch too many 'Jiang Hu' movies.
     
  20. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Light versus Heat

    What I find interesting in this thread is the reaction from a number of people who seem so distressed about the wrangling. As Chas Clements (a silat player) says, a bunch of martial artists get together and a fight breaks out? What a surprise ...

    You want peace in the valley, become a Quaker.

    It might be that the bickering is petty, although I disagree. When you are talking about investing some large measure of your time, and maybe some money, then it is maybe not a bad idea to have some idea if both are going to be well-spent. If you were, say, learning how to climb a rock wall and you were taught a way to grip that might save your life, that would be good to know. If you were shown a way to hold on that, in an emergency, would fail, causing you to fall and die, maybe you'd want to know that, too.

    I certainly would.

    It is true there are a lot of forceful personalities involved in silat and they have (and will continue to) clash. But isn't it better to know where the mines might be in a field than not? Knowledge is power.

    I'm not pointing any fingers at the good, the bad, or the ugly. But I do feel the need to respond when somebody says something with which I disagree. And if they offer something that, in my mind, is wrong, allowing it to pass rather than addressing it doesn't serve anybody. I've said this before, but if I saw somebody who didn't know any better about to pick up a poisonous snake, I'd feel the need to point out that maybe it wasn't a good idea for him to do that. Simple ignorance ought not to be worth the death penalty.

    So maybe disagreeing about an art's history or function or worth is petty. For me, if a position on something is worth having, it is worth defending. And as long as somebody is tossing rocks in my direction, I get to toss them back. If anybody ought to understand that, silat players should.

    I'm not here to talk about passing gas while squatting in a horse stance, however funny that might be to some folks. Mel Brooks did that better in Blazing Saddles ...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page