Alright, let's go ahead and start this up: Sipalki in Kuk Sool. How much of this art is there really in Kuk Sool. Is there enough to bring this to attention or is Kuk Sool exactly what it says it is "the study of the entire Korean fighting arts". This has seem to be a hot topic with both the Suh Family and the Kuk Sool community. What influences are can you see on Kuk Sool as an art and what, if any, arts are present. Let's get to it!
well while i was in korea i saw this at suweon gate, and filmed it on yee old iphone: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtObU0NQPpA&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]suwon gate‏ - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr9zXVHdnd4&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]suwon gate 2‏ - YouTube[/ame] and although jjeokarak(chopsticks) arent one of the traditional 18 weapons, just for shizahs and giggles i filmed a student eating live squid for the first time while we were in busan: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dYQd5SRK14&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]live squid‏ - YouTube[/ame]
Martial Art Philosophy The techniques are followed by "Do" (way) which in a sense is the road of knowledge, including the moral philosophy which is always together with the technique and the idea is to cultivate the attitude of respect and help each other, have humility and develop an auto superation character to be a better person in life. The style called ION BI RYU is one that is taught by the old dynasty of the Grand Master Soo Nam Yoo and its literal translation is "school of the secrets of the swallow" because of its purity, agility, resistance, and tolerance for all, capacity of fulfillment of its objective and ability to choose its way. If the student is developing Sipalki's philosophy accurately; he/she will not do anything to an offender, he/she will try not fight and not provoke a fight, only in the last case of self defence, will he/she only use enough power to defend themself and not hurt anybody. Legend There are as many histories of Martial Arts in the World as there are Countries. There is a Chinese legend about the beginning of Kunfu or Kempo. A Buddhist monk from India came to the temple SO RIM SA (SHAOLIN) to teach Buddhist knowledge (BODHIDHARMA) to an old Chinese King. This is the beginning of the Buddhism Zen (including meditation exercises) that technique has been passed from monk to monk. BODHIDHARMA is a physical and mental system ( I-CHIN-SUTRA) Chinese learned this Indian system of combat with open hand and they became the best warriors of China, the system was called KWON BOP (one of the SIPALKI techniques still used today). This system was propagated by Buddhist monks to Korea, Japan, and Okinawa as well and this is the beginning of open hand combat techniques. At this time every country was making their own style but with a similar line. In Korea more than 2000 years ago the King gentleman warriors had developed a hand and feet combat technique called SOO BAK. 1400 years ago in the Kingdom of Chin Heung the gentleman class of Silla were integrated with the warriors Corp called HWA RANG DO. They went to the mountains and to the coast to study animals defence and attack movements. They adapted the technique and attached it with the old Buddhist Monks system to prepare mentally and physically the warriors for the SOO BAK. (Silla 668-892 periods) At this time the existing techniques from the old Buddhist monks Koreans, Mongolians and Chinese, had been grouped in 18 units of techniques (this is the SI PAL KI like we know today). They found in Mongolia one of the most traditional and deepest Martial Art cultures. Later the SOO BAK was propagated by the Dynasties SILA and KOGURYO followed by KORYO. With time the SOO BAK was a important part of military training and at this time the King CHONGIO edited a book called MUYE-DOBO-TONGJI (Martial Art illustrated book) describing all the warriors knowledge Objectives One of the Objectives of the learning of Sipalki-do is to develop students good moral values like: tolerance, discipline, humility, initiative, intuition, self control, self confidence, respect for others and health habits which includes fitness training like: agility, co-ordination, resistance, flexibility, strength, balance, technique and intelligence to use the art only for self defence. ---I guess we could always replace the "Sipalki" with "Kuk Sool"...as this all sounds too familiar.
Thanks, Ki_Power, that was very informative. And I agree with your summation. Since you didn't source where you took all that info from, I did a little digging... I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that perhaps you got your lovely wife to translate something from the website of the Argentina branch of Sibpalki. There certainly isn't much on the subject of Sibpalki in the english version of Wikipedia (just click here). But since one of the major proponents of the art relocated to South America, the spanish version of Wikipedia is a little more fleshed out WRT details (click here for the Original resource, or click here for a Translation [via Google]). Note in the 3rd section (Sibpalki Today), how the only version supported by the South Korean Ministry of Culture and Tourism is the one founded by Young Ho Kim, whereas many people look to the Korean Association of Sib Pal Ki, founded by Kwang Suk Kim, when wanting to learn the ins & outs of Sibpalki. It also appears that Soo Nam Yoo, whom you referenced (and who's responsible for initiating Ion Bi Ryu-Do/연비류도/(燕秘流道), is the least "traditional" when it comes to representing the techniques of Sibpalki (i.e. in the sense of sticking with *authentic* methods drawn from the MYDBTJ), and as stated on that wiki page, also has the most closely associated ties to MA such as KSW or HRD (WRT his methodologies). Hopefully this last bit I included helps to clear up much of the confusion about any solid links of kuk-sul to sibpalgi.
KIM Kwang Suk is the identified authority on SIB PAL GI, as long as we are talking about the practice and not the generic term used by Koreans to identify Chinese Boxing. The practice is a system of 18 systems organized by Prince Sado and based on the material of the MU YE JEBO (1612) and MU YE SHINBO (1756). If a person were to take KIM Kwang Sok's books and bump them up against the material found in the KS publications I am sure that one would find similarities just as one finds similarities among various publications on different styles of Chinese Boxing. I guess the question is, how intersted are people in pursuing this. From past threads I never got the idea that anyone was particularly interested. FWIW. BTW: I never got the idea that KS was a compendium of all korean fighting arts. What I understood was that KUK SOOL was the constructed candidate for consideration as the definitive "Korean martial tradition" courtesy of SUH In Hyuk. From what I can tell the KS people hasve been enhancing their curriculum with odds and ends ever since--- but thats just me. Best Wishes, Bruce
I believe I mentioned in post #4 that Kwang Suk Kim is a respected sibpalgi authority, but since Bruce brought up the fact that "sibpalgi" is also used as a generic term for "kung-fu" in Korea (or at least it used to be, about a half century ago), perhaps the ideal thing to do would be to provide a link to this side of the coin, so here it is: Level 10 Kung Fu Association I don't think any further explanation is necessary, once you read the full content of the webpage linked in the previous paragraph (as it IS rather thorough). I will state, however, that it's this "kung-fu" meaning of the term SIBPALGI for which TKMA such as kuk-sool are linked, and not to the MYDBTJ-inspired versions of sibpalgi.
Egg-zactly. And this was the side I was working to sort out on a thread some months back. The problem seemed to be that folks couldn't keep the two different uses of approximately the same term apart. Now, the SIB PAL KI people (after Kim) chose to alter the romanization spelling from the more common "sip pal gi" to "sib pal ki" but it wasn't a big help as not everyone was on-board with this modification. If we stick with the generic label, there are at least four separate arts that could fall under "sip pal gi". If we stick with the more narrow definition, there is only the KWON BEOP material to serve as a foundation for later practices. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPqedELa_QI&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]suwon gate 3 - YouTube[/ame]
Good to see that they have removed some of the more acrobatic moves such as the jump-spin maneuvers. That was starting to get a little over the top. Best Wishes, Bruce
i totally dug it, however i noticed the gon bong movements were nearly identical, with an addition slap on the ground. now let me dig up a vid on some hung style guandao and we might have an approximation of what ours looks like
Good Luck.......if its of any help I have found that the WOL-DO material and the YINEUDAO (KWAN-DAO) of the Shaolin traditions were pretty similar. What caught my eye is that early into the WOL-DO material (form clip) there are a series of three turning parries which integrate with three counter-cuts. Almost all of the new interpretations have the actor performing a jump-spin which would be entirely impractical from a combat POV but makes for great eye-candy for an audience. There is also a very significant difference in the opening moves that result in the WOL-DO blade in a forward but inverted position. For people who are interested in combat practicality this might bear some additional examination. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
looks like a practise set(cool idea): [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW7hNuHbqkY&feature=related"]Hung gar guan dao.lin nam hong jai quan - YouTube[/ame] looks like an actual form: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfm91Mb4pQo"]Luke Kretschmann 关刀å—拳 洪家拳 Hung Gar Guan Dao - YouTube[/ame]
to provoke more knowledge from you, mr. sims, i was wondering if in the shaolin textbook there is any distinguishing what we see in northern and southern styles: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MaH6hXQfiI&feature=related"]Bak Sil Lum (Northern Shaolin) - Spring Autumn Long-Handled Knife Sample - YouTube[/ame] and [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDONglIclEo&feature=related"]Hung Gar Kuen - General Chai Yang Long-Handle Knife Sample - YouTube[/ame]
Lets not forget that each and every movement ought be successful in reducing a target. I have a very strong prejudice against simply whipping a long-handled implement around as though one were a drum major leading a parade. As in the case of a sword, the reduction of targets may only be accomplished after long continuous training on the most basic techniques. All the same one then knows in their heart that they are weilding a weapon and not merely a training item. FWIW. BTW: IMHO if you took the twirly stuff out of the clip that Luke fella has some very fine focused energy (IE. FA JING) with his cuts and parries. Might be worth taking another look at it. Best Wishes, Bruce
so about those latter two vids, mr.simms... i personally dig our sibpalgi-daedongryu because we are taught that the spins are a form of conditioning. the first spin was also taught as a way to trap then deflect a sword (or spear). the circle spin is beautiful to me when the intent is there.
My sentiments exactly, Bruce. Up until Mr. Kretschmann started twirling his weapon behind his back (a movement which makes more sense for a staff or spear, as moonknives are simply too heavy plus not being properly balanced for such a maneuver), I was enjoying his performance much more than the form portrayed in the other clip from post #14. In that first clip, however, there's a part when the guy does a kick (~44 or 45 second mark), but it would make more sense to me if it was done as a means of extracting the blade from being stuck in its *imaginary* target. I realize that using such a weapon should reduce your need for kicking, but I see no reason not to have such skills displayed in a form (even the old man in the light blue uniform kicks his legs over his moon-knife when making a low-level twirling pass [~48 second mark]). All in all, though, I find the two forms performed by the older gentlemen in post #15, to be more in line with the spirit of a moonknife (i.e. going by the limited selection presented by our friend, SsangKall). :thinking:
my personal fav: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx8rTkvR5Hg&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Kao Tao Sheng 高é“生 - YouTube[/ame] but i wonder if this weapon would be used against anything but charging horses in battle. thankfully in some of the old pics of royal guards, they had weoldo's in hand...too bad they dropped them when the japanese came for queen min.
