The power demonstrated by Huang can also be applied as a strike with similar consequences to those you describe as being the result of explosive fajin.
I'm sorry, but I have yet to see any power demonstrated by Huang all I see in this video clip is him degrading himself by resorting to the same old tricks (this is the rot) that so many great Tai Chi teachers use. It was a way to get students along time ago and seems to have got progressively worse over the years. I'm not knocking your teachers skills, just the fact he's not demonstrating them. We practice Fa-jing it is on a bag, a kick shield, or a person wearing two sets of body amour when we do our form and San Sou, why would you want to express it differently. This is too limited. Explosive power is only a type of Fajin. The trouble with trying to stop the rot is it just doesn't work. Nobody seems to be able to agree what the rot even is. People will continue to think whatever they like whatever anyone else says.[/QUOTE] Yang Lu Chan practiced Fa-jing, in his form, Yany Chen Fu demonstrated Fa-jing, but only two his closest students. They demonstrated and taught explosive Fa-jing not any other subversion. as for the rot, its the crud put on youpube with all the silly tricks etc... Yes some "people will continue to think what ever they like whatever anyone else says.", but they have lost the ability to learn and keep an open mind.
You say lots of things that you cannot possibly know. Dismissing things you have never experienced and questioning the character of a man you have never met is hardly keeping an open mind. Your beliefs seem to be based on things you have been told, not personal experience. I trust my experience far more than another's words.
I had another thought about this. Learning to express power in different ways gives you a more complete understanding of it. This exploration is the art aspect of this martial art.You may only be interested in this power's martial application but I have broader interest and there is value in training in this system beyond learning how to fight well.
Curious about 'martial application' Sooo ... if the so and so oponent is in this position doing that move and moving in this specific manner we have a counter in the form of a 'martial application' ... is this right? Is that what 'martial application' means? Or ... is it more general, sort of along the lines of, if the opponent has his head here and you have a clear shot at it i.e. he's committed and left an opening you then apply your 'martial application' on the body part thus exposed? So what makes it a 'martial application'? Is slapping someone a 'martial aplpication' or is it just slapping someone ... and how many 'martial aplpications' are there in taiji? Now this I understand! And you are right, once in the thick of it one never consciously decides what to do ... period.
Would that be an MG on a low, intermediate or a high cyclic rate of fire ... and what calibre? Regards the rocket, which fuel/propellant are you talking about ... I mean you'd need a lot of baking soda & vinegar to really feel the hit from that type of rocket. I really don't believe he's been hit by either .
I just can't agree with this point as an absolute. I have been in situations where my adrenaline has seemed to slow down reality to such an extent that I have been able to be very deliberate and conscious in my thinking. My post conflict / crisis memory has been very acute - my thoughts having been etched on my mind very clearly.
Careful JK, you are on the borderline of sounding esoteric and mystical!!! j/k I have felt this as well, though to me it felt like adrenaline and the situation was more increasing my senses. Sense of awareness, hearing, reaction, thinking speed etc. were all heightened. This makes it quite easy to react to a given situation or even remember post situation clearly. It feels like another state of mind, but rather it is the whole mind and body working in a perfect "symphony" together. In my own exp. anyways.
your adrenaline seemed to slow down reality? i don't think that's possible. what you're describing is something zen-like, that you achieved some level of consciousness which is attributed to meditative states. isn't it more then likely that the adrenaline produced a psychological effect which made you think your thoughts were more clear then normal, when in reality they were just the same speed as any other thought you've had? isn't it more then likely that it's all in your head?
The easiest way to observe the body-mind response to threat is when a magpie swoops ... people instinctively raise their arms in a flinch to protect the head and arms, and the hair stands on end. One value of the hair standing on end is that they serve as perimeter antenae that help to absorb an awareness of what is around when something brushes against them. IMO the body has ways it moves that make sense anatomically, and some ways that don't make sense ... and the bodies instinctive flinch is such a strong imperative, it makes sense to use it rather than to reconstruct and re-programme extensively. Really that's what you're honing when you practice your short drills ... getting the synapses to score deeply with a strong connection to muscle memory. When the body mind takes over (instinct) our thinking capacity is still intact, but I feel that it goes into an 'observation' mode or even into a cheer along mode i.e. 'take that and that you bahstard' etc. It doesn't go 'oops he's doing two left jabs and a cross (impossible scenario anyway to 'think' through that! ) ... I'll duck, then I'll weave, and hit under his left armpit ... gotcha ... now I'll step into a sila and deconstruct kneecap just about now, roll, mount, deconstruct windpipe ... etc'. However we do often record for playback ... and I think that is what creates the illusion of conscious decision in the thick of it.
I think you can safely we have different beliefs and experiences. I do keep an open mind, I have my eyes wide open I've seen the video's As to Fa-jing, I have first hand experience with on both sides of the fence. If your referring to the healing side I have received Fa-jing in this way too and I did'nt even need to get pushed across the room and no I'm not just interested in the fighting side of the Art.
Or, I hope, have any of your organs explode But doesn't this demonstrate that something isn't automatically "fake" just because it is done in a different way. After all you defined Fajin as explosive power earlier in the thread, only to be practised on bags and shields but now you are saying it can be used for healing.
Nope I don't go with the exploding organ thing Good twisting of words there Actually I said "We practice Fa-jing it is on a bag, a kick shield, or a person wearing two sets of body armor when we do our form and San Sou, why would you want to express it differently.." Yes it can be used in conjunction with acupressure points. The Fa-jing is exactly the same, still explosive, it is still a Fa-jing strike the movement is exactly the same, the blow is most definitely lighter. So no it doesn't demonstrate that something isn't automatically "fake" just because it is done in a different way, but then I never said that either. If you comment on this type of display, the answers are always the same "you are not a high enough level" "you don't understand" "There are many types of Gin." hic... No one explains it, because no one can, because its just pushing. and hey why push one person when you can push a whole s**** load.
And in addition, worth mentioning the "surprise" response - when we are just day dreaming and someone startles us, and we shudder very powerfully. Can't be sure, but it seems to me that that may have evolved as a really useful means of shaking some surprise attacker off you, by passing conscious control - instinctive bodily fa jing. Any one who has it knows the feeling of proper, total relaxation with energy release. Some big dinosaur grabs you lol... or, well, maybe another ape... and you shake it off.
Well an answer isn't invalidated just because it is commonly given. Maybe those answers are common for a reason. And I can and have explained it, but this is not the same thing as you not accepting that explanation. But anyway, if you can watch some video of a highly regarded practitioner, with a lifetime's experience in the martial arts including 40+ years of Taiji and be absolutely sure that there is nothing that you don't understand about what you see, then good luck to you.
unfettered-Cheng's basic "formal" push hands sequence is executed on a horizontal plane.Not that one doesn't perform things within it on the vertical,but I mean just the basic plane the arms travel in.But maybe we're talking about the same thing. Re Huang-Skepticism by other practitioners of Cheng's line may be no more valid than others,you're right.
Is that not the same as all the other answers,but with more words ? Where is your explanation? I tell you what try and set the same scenario as in the video and you try it. I never said that there was nothing I didn't understand what I'm saying is this is just Pushing, if its not what is it ? come on, without turning it round as if I shouldn't be asking. (Gasp horror ,he questions the master.) when the guys are standing in horse stance and they all fall down if this wasn't just pushed what is it that happened?
It is my answer. In the thread "Temple" style: Tai Chi history question post no. 92 and elsewhere. Forgive me if I can't be bothered to go through it all again but I am not interested in proving anything to you. Erm, I think I have. And what I said was "if you can watch some video of a highly regarded practitioner, with a lifetime's experience in the martial arts including 40+ years of Taiji and be absolutely sure that there is nothing that you don't understand about what you see, then good luck to you". Now obviously you do think you understand what you are seeing otherwise you would not say "what I'm saying is this is just Pushing" or accuse Master Huang of "trickery". As to what it is, understanding comes from training, not words. Oh you can question, but really, there's no need to call me master. I'm not sure what you mean. Not all the people pushed were in horse stance and for those that were, how does their stance change the nature of what Huang was doing? You seem to be implying that because they were in horse stance he can't have been demonstrating fajin.
