well, unfetteredmind, its up to you to go there, but i would just let him (or her) go on thinking as he thinks. lift and sink, thats a good description of the motion and what should transpire
Fa-jing leaves the energy in the body, if he hit the guy with Fa-jing he would have dropped straight down not ran backwards, to tell his mates. If you push someone who's in horse stance he's going to fall over. Its a shame that some people with high skill levels have to resort to trickery to out do each other. couldn't agree more As far as "using the opponents force against him" This is really been slightly over cooked and slightly misconstrued. There are many ways of using a guys force against him for instance stepping forward instead of stepping back.
um, fa jing doesn't have to make you drop down if it hits you. it's nothing magical, just an expression of whole body power neatly applied. as such you can hit someone in a whole variety of ways. and the reaction they have will be just as various. just like most things in TJQ, it's a principle that can be used in lots of different ways. that's why it's so great and so hard to learn.
I like your thinking, to me Fa-jing is a Technique implemented in striking with different parts of the body, which what makes Tai Chi an excellent form of self defense. When you strike someone with Fa-jing, the results are similar, no one moves backwards very much (as it would indicates the applicant was pushing.) The result are only varied by the location of the blow and its always devastating. The problem is somewhere along the line it's been changed around to cover up for people who can't do it hence all the running backwards video clips. :woo: Where does pushing someone help you to defend yourself. Lang Lu Chan "don't threaten me with that very sharp sword or I'll push you back into that mattress I lent against the wall earlier" Aggressor "err... ok I'll be off then" Thats why my definition of Fa-jing is explosive power. It stops the rot.
Grandmaster Jou Tsung Hwa used to say: "Karate hits you like machine gun. Tai Chi hits you like a rocket!"
cool even better would be "Karate hits you like machine gun. Tai Chi hits you like you swallowed a rocket!"
stopping the rot. yup. perhaps we could say then that it is also "whole body explosive power" as a really essential part is the whole body feeling explosively focused. rather than anything isolated. and yes, i know, your whole body moves anyway when you do stuff, but you all know what i mean.
"Lift and sink. The vertical circle. Funny how so many practitioners think the circularity in Taiji is horizontal. Why do they not consider that circularity might also include a vertical circle?"Good question/observation, unfettered. The vertical circle is more difficult.(Big deal).So some eschew it in much of their practice. An example is Cheng's line mostly uses the horizontal.Note they don't even have a formal push hands sequence utilizing the vertical method, as opposed to most Yang lines. As to the behavior of Huang's students in demos, even other practitioners of Cheng's line are somewhat skeptical.See the history of CMCs TCC in Malaysia in Journal of Asian Martial Arts some years back.(Sorry,don't have it at hand to tell you which issue).Before someone shoots me, allow me to acknowledge Huang as CMC's top student. As to original post, yeah, individual single posture/movement practice is what's required.Repeating the same move over and over and over.Then doing the same with 2 or 3 moves.Also allows one to pay particular attention to different specific component(s) of one's choosing. As to the comment on what good is pushing someone in self defense-while I would be the first to say that much of TCC has devolved into just pushing, don't underestimate the value of balance attacks.Most people don't know how to fall.Especially on concrete.At least three deaths in my town -(that I know of )- since I was an older teenager caused by bouncers intending to not injure people by pushing them rather than striking them.Result-fractured skulls on concrete.So much as one reads/hears in TCC "you can just push an aggressor away", I think in most non life threatening situations, one might be better off doing something other than downing someone like that.Those bouncers went to prison for manslaughter.I'd rather get arrested for breaking a hand,ankle,jaw or something.Of course, if it's serious, then utilize the sidewalk,brick walls, or whatever to the utmost advantage to neutralize an adversary. Unfortunately, sometimes once in contact, the body does what the body does, so one can't always consciously decide what to do.I'm sure any here who have practiced seriously for a good length of time,and this applies to any system, have had the experience of "huh, that just happened before I realized I was doing it ! " Especially true in any system where tactile sensitivity plays a part, such as wrestling/grappling systems,or the contact phase in TCC,PK,Kali, etc.
I agree those Sumo wrestlers scare the pants off me But, they always get up and come back for more, also its very hard to push someone when your face is attached to their fist.
no. it starts from the connection with the ground; with your legs. this is the case in chen and yi quan at least. everything above is used to help modify the type/direction/strength of the fa jing/fa li/whatever. using your whole body to absorb and issue force through correct structure, relaxation, intent through any part of your body is the most important point about any TJQ player
Well I agree that many (probably most) practitioners don't use the vertical circle but I'm not sure about that being more prevalent in Cheng's line. The vertical circle is the basis of everything Huang taught and is fundamental to all pushing hands sets. This is not something I really know about but I don't think that the fact that they are of Cheng's line gives their criticism any more significance. From what I have experienced with two of Huang's top students, what Huang does seems perfectly plausuble to me. I have also seen footage of him doing the same in classes (not public demos).
