Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by YODA, Apr 2, 2003.

  1. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi MAPers

    Someone said this on another forum & it kinda struck a chord.... discuss :D

  2. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Is it simple[?] I wouldn't have thought so.

    The process in which you develop your own fighting style could be complex or simple depending on how you decide to train. Although I would have thought it be more complex. Learning more things and having to put more thought into YOUR style than someone learning one style and that styles way of doing things.

    What could be more simple and probably will be. Is the final way you fight, compared to many classical styles that have complex, flowery and unnecessary movements in them.

    The process and your art being seperate issues.....

    (from a non JKD persons perspective)
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2003
  3. waya

    waya Valued Member

    If you are going to seriously train any system, and be dedicated to your training, shouldn't the level of thought on techniques and applications, movement, etc be the same as if you were evaluating a new syllabus?
  4. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    errrr you mean I should be thinking about what I do :D

    Yeah good point, but is it not different for the JKD people. With JKD not being a martial art :confused:

    Two karate people will fight differently in the way they apply techniques, but the JKD people could be vastly different. Having more choice over what they train in before they even decide how to apply techniques.

    I don't understand the JKD process like a JKD person would, but I'd imagine that complicates matters.
  5. waya

    waya Valued Member

    Process may be different, training may be different, but thought shouldn't be. Karateka have to analyze and adapt their techniques just the same as anyone else, JKD practitioners may have to do more of this, but in the end the thought is still the same for anyone training seriously. Just my opinion
  6. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I think your right Waya!

    I try to do the same. Its easy for many martial artists not to put much thought in, their instructor blindly telling them what’s right and wrong. So they don’t need to put thought in because they know what they do is right and the other ways wrong because it goes against blah blah blah :D

    Once we start thinking outside our style and cross training etc, what we’re doing is close to JKD philosophies anyway and not like many traditional martial artists.
  7. waya

    waya Valued Member

    Possibly so..... But even the founders of "traditional" systems had to do the same, as did their instructors, etc, etc..... So I think that "traditional" systems as they are meant to be taught would more be described as ecclectic today.
  8. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I've no doubt the original founders put thought in, but could you describe the schools today as eclectic!? I'm not sure you could, when many are little more than historical recreation centres. Theres not many people that put thought into developing their art as the JKD people do. A lot of us on here are an exception and that’s a lot of the reason why we’re here. But the amount of martial artists I speak to that are so closed minded about anything really put me off talking about martial arts.

    That’s one way I feel JKD is less simplistic ;)

    What would you say about YODA's original question Waya? I'm going a bit off thread.
  9. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    I suppose it very much depends upon what the original poster intended by their statement. Did they mean the JKD process is simple (which obviously it isn't) or did they mean that the techniques should be simple (which again is pretty hard to conclude). Hard to tell from the quote.

    Perhaps they were referring to directness? A technique shoudl be as direct as the situation dictates i.e. if you can just punch then why bother to trap first, that sort of thing?

    You might say that an SDA is simple and that ABC, ABD, PIA & HIA are complex?
  10. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Bingo :D

    True - and it's strange that the ease of use of such "simplicity" is the most challenging in application.
  11. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    So more complex in training and more simple in fighting?
  12. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    Training simplicity can be simple - simple however, is not always easy :D
  13. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Training with you can't be easy! :D

    Whats it like training different styles compared to the arts that teach just their way of doing things?

    Although I can imagine more simplicity, compared to much of the traditional art madness.
  14. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    No - but it can be simple :D

    Complex :D

    Sometimes - and it's getting more so as time goes on.
  15. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    OK thanks YODA, think I've got it now! :)

    But not before I turned the thread into a one man ckd debate :D
  16. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    A one man debate is sometimes better than a mass debate :D
  17. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Thats what I keep telling myself! :D
  18. dredleviathan

    dredleviathan New Member

    I must have listened in class one night by mistake or something! :D

    The simiplicity of a technique in my opinion very often belies the complexity of its use. Lets face it most techniques are in themselves, when considered in isolation, pretty simple. Trouble is that they rarely occur in isolation in reality. The tendency in drill training is to freeze a moment in time in order to learn to react correctly. The application in real time is most often not so simple.

    For instance a simplistic approach to a comabtive situation would be to go for the pre-emptive strike. This is great but what happens if your pre-emptive strike doesn't finish the situation... suddenly things become more complex. You can drill and drill your one punch stop but you're screwed when the opponent doesn't react in a predictable way (i.e. being knocked out, giving up etc).

    Like Yoda said just because a technique is simple doesn't mean its easy to use!
  19. bewater

    bewater New Member

    Dear All,

    Keeping things simple takes more research and reflection than merely simple technique and drilling.

    A problem arises from the programming of drills. As the vast majority to drills are taught from the point of view of learning techniques, these drills dangerously breed lack of adaption to new circumstance.

    If you train drills to teach techniques purely within the controlled confines of 'rules' of a certain structure (how and when the drills come about), but never allow for freedom from the mindset which is being constantly reinforced by the drilling, then adaption suffers.

    Unfortunately, if you are in a real-life situation - then what little false advantage you may of felt you had will evaporate.


    bewater ..

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