In our art, the lineage keeps the body of knowledge intact. In my understanding, the lineage is passed on to the person who has the best teaching skill combined with the deepest understanding of the complete training. This person must also understand (and live) the psychology and philosophy that goes hand in hand with the martial science. The western world wants it now; wants a silat pill. So, many of the silat players won't complete the training and do not gain the depth that is necessary. Orang Jawa is correct when he states, " In the western world many people build their reputation on other peoples experiences or fames." "First you must be able to whistle your instructors tune, then you can learn learn to whistle your own tune." PDT The problem is, many people leave their instuctors before they learn how to whistle. They go off doing "Row,row, row your boat" and end up losing that tune, too. They can't whistle their own tune, have no concept of how to make "improvements" to an art, and their "art" deteriorates from there. Pretty soon people have all kinds of wrong ideas about what this art is and isn't. They spread these lies and incomplete training on to others. You end up with a little bag of tricks, which may or may not be effective, and not the complete training. If you have the real thing, lineage is very important. Bart
Importance Bart -- In a perfect world, that would be true. The person best skilled as a teacher and who understood and could use the art the best would be named lineage holder. Alas, that doesn't always happen. There are various reasons, some can be personal, some political, some considerations can involve whether the person best qualified will accept the responsibility. There are, for instance, a couple of well-known silat teachers who, at different times, have promised the lineage of their art to several different people, and probably none of those told they'd get it will wind up with it -- not officially, anyhow. I take your meaning, but I would disagree with this, just a little: If you have the real thing, then you don't need a certificate or a title or anything else. The real thing is enough in itself.
Mr. Perry, I would say that what you are describing about the lineage being promised to someone,has probably happened within the organization I am involved with. Possibly, this occured twice. In those cases, I believe both practitioners who where in line to receive the lineage revealed their true character and someone else was chosen that could uphold the tenets of the art and who would continue with the training. Due to those learning experiences our "group" dropped off the face of the earth and just trained the people who were willing to seek it out and put in the time. Bukti Negara is just now trying to re-establish a public image. Because of our "disappearance" there are many misconceptions about what has occured with the PDT camp. Bart
I guess we all have a slightly different concept of what lineage is. The piece of paper hanging on the wall, the family tree diagram with the current holders photo at the bottom, an insignia or badge of office worn by the holder, an ancient scroll ,book or device passed on…..All of that is not important. The lineage holder should be a container, someone who has the entire teachings and more locked in their hart. We could describe it as someone who has talent or genius in the given area. Thing is how does genius/talent arise, who awards it? Then how is lineage given and by who? Is genius/talent given or recognised? Look at the founder of any Martial art and you will find that they all have things in common: Talent, genius, originality of thought, in-depth understanding, observant. Are such people needed in martial arts, what happens to an art which has no such people?
Mr. Perry, Sorry, I didn't include this in my previous post. You state that you "take my meaning", but I don't believe you do at all. The lineage is about preserving the real thing. The lineage keeps it proper. The lineage keeps people who just have part of the picture from messing up a good thing. Unfortunately, that is difficult in our western world. People take a little and then go out and do their own thing. Sometimes it is ego and sometimes it is to make a buck. The curriculum integrity is lost. The western world rationalizes this by saying "the art needs to evolve" or "the man is a genious and needed to leave his instuctor so he could accelerate his training and pursue his vision." I do agree that you don't need a certificate or title. It is easy enough to see living proof. I'm sure we would disagree about what the "real thing" is. I am pleased that you are happy in your training and I'm certain that you are getting a good thing. I am truly happy for you. I just wish you and others would call the art you train in by a different name. "A rose, by any other name, would smell just as sweet." If it don't smell like a rose, it probably isn't a rose. Sure it may be a flower, and that is a good thing, but please don't call it a rose. Again, I am happy that you are happy with your training and I do wish you the best. Bart
Calling a Rose a Spade Salam silat, everyone, I hope that I am not mistaken in understanding that Fireshadow would rather have Mr. Perry calling his silat by a name other than Serak. This is very funny. Up to now there has been no confirmation that the silat taught by the de Thouars family in the USA is Serak at all! I mean Serak as it is understood in Indonesia as an aliran from Betawi. From the myths built around the art in the USA it seems that it is believed that Serak is a Badui art, and this is not true according to Indonesian elders. Inconsistencies like this make me wonder: maybe what the de Thouars brought to the USA was not even Serak at all! The fact that someone has actually had the brash arrogance to register the name as a trademark in the USA further proves that the person who did that doesn't have respect or understanding for the cultures surrounding silat in the Betawi area. Being an aliran as I have often stated means more or less the same as the ism in expressionism, cubism and so on. So there can be many different interpretations and manifestations of Serak, all of which can't trace any lineage back to Pak Serak because in Indonesia matters like this were never so formally important, especially in aliran systems. In perguruan systems, of course, the lineage is very important. Warm Salaams to all, Kiai Carita.
I do agree that you don't need a certificate or title. It is easy enough to see living proof. I'm sure we would disagree about what the "real thing" is. I am pleased that you are happy in your training and I'm certain that you are getting a good thing. I am truly happy for you. I just wish you and others would call the art you train in by a different name. "A rose, by any other name, would smell just as sweet." If it don't smell like a rose, it probably isn't a rose. Sure it may be a flower, and that is a good thing, but please don't call it a rose. Again, I am happy that you are happy with your training and I do wish you the best. Bart Guru Bart, If you disagree with what the art Mr. Perry trains is called, what would you call it? How, besides being a guru in bukti negara, are you an authority to tell Mr. Perry's teacher what to call what he teaches? Please answer.
Misconceptions? With all due respect, sir, two things: First, I didn't mention any names, I referred to "well-known" silat practitioners. In both the cases with which I am familiar, who revealed their true character -- student or teacher -- is debatable. As I understand the concepts of adat and hormat, that sword cuts both ways. Sometimes students choose to leave an organization, for good reason or bad; sometimes, teachers throw students out, also for good reason, or bad. Unless you are intimately acquainted with the details of each case, making broad comments may lack a certain ... accuracy. My study of Bukti ended some years ago, for what I considered an excellent reason, and I don't claim any great knowledge of what has happened to that art since. I also don't believe I have a lot of misconceptions about it.
With all do respect to everyone..... I'm rather confused about this for along time. De Thouar's family has introduced three system that I know of. Bukti Negara (Paul), Serak (Victor)and Kuntou (Willem). Is these three systems was handed down by Maurice? What is the Bukti Negara origin? Victor's Serak origin? Willem's Kuntau origin? Again I'm not questioning their silat or knowledge in silat, I just wondering, since we are talking about lineage again. And It seemed Mr. Bart kind of offended that my friend did not use Bukti Negara as his primary teaching, eventhough, If I'm not mistaken most of his silat coming from Bukti Negara. Is that correct? Tristan
And the Gloves Come Off ... Personally, I would be perfectly happy to call what we do Plinck-style Silat and let it go at that. There are times when having a connection to the terms "Sera," or "Serak (tm)" seems to me to bring way more baggage than it is worth. I have, more than once, suggested to my teacher that he get as far away from the name Sera(k) as possible, but he's easier-going than I. He still says what he does is Paul-style Serak. (I don't claim any connection to Bukti Negara all all these days; we have a couple of former gurus in that who train with us, and they don't claim it, either.) But if you mean to imply in any way, shape, or form that my teacher has no depth of knowledge of what the PDT organization calls Sera(k), whatever it is, then I submit you don't have clue one what you are talking about. Given that Guru Plinck was a senior student of the Pendekar before there was an art called Bukti Negara, and that he helped develop that sub-system, and was listed as a senior guru in it before you came to the art, there's no question in my mind who knows what. Whatever has happened to Bukti since my teacher stopped training us in it, I don't know, and frankly, could not care less. Guru Plinck was as loyal and respectful a student of the Pendekar as the man ever had. He was treated shabbily for his loyalty. Period. Ask the members of the Bukti board what their opinion of Guru Plinck's capabilities are as a Silat Sera player. See if you can find one who will offer that he is less than adept -- to his face. I expect I could sell tickets to see that. Who a lineage holder passes that lineage to is, of course, his (or her) business. But if while you may believe that such a transfer always goes to the person best qualified to receive it, I know better. And I wish you all the best, too.
Steve Perry said: Personally, I would be perfectly happy to call what we do Plinck-style Silat and let it go at that. ******************** As a wannabe silat student, I'm very happy and content to call my system Silat Majalah. Stevan and his students are always welcome to joint us..... NO rules, no fees, no ranks, just fun of learning from the old magazine Tristan
Weird History It is true, our art's history is fraught with inconsistancies. What we know for sure is that the de Vries and de Thouars families who migrated from Java to Holland and the U.S. after WWII brought with them a fighting art. This was supposedly taught to various members of the family by one Mas Djut (or Djoet), beginning with Johann (Jan) de Vries, sometime about the turn of the 19th to 20th centuries. Mas Djut was supposedly a student of Bapak Sera, and what the family learned eventually came to be called Sera in honor of the founder. What I have cobbled-together of the history is posted on Guru Plinck's website. I make no claims for accuracy, save that what I wrote seems to make as much sense as anything else I have heard. I don't believe that Sera is a Badui art, never have, and past a certain point, there is no written evidence for any of the history, so it is all conjecture. I was given to understand that Pendekar Paul added the silent "k" after arrival in the U.S. Whatever the genesis of the name, we in the Pacific Northwest believe the art is related to Tjimanda (Cimande), either as an offshoot or as an answer to that older and better-established system. Maybe both. (According to Dr. Ian Wilson's doctoral thesis on Pencak Silat in West Java, Sera existed as a separate art when Tjimande expand outward and came across it. It doesn't really matter.) We see similarity between what we do and what certain Tjimande players do, and since both styles come from a relatively small geographical area, it makes sense that they would at the very least have bumped into each other, figuratively and literally. Whatever it is called, and wherever it came from, my teacher was one of Paul de Thouars most senior and longest-trained students, nobody denies this. He worked one-on-one with Paul for years, and in classes with other seniors after that. Until the two men stopped talking to each other, the Pendekar's public comments, letters, and literature acknowledged Stevan as a senior Serak student and the highest level Bukti Negara teacher. Afterward ... ? Well, it's a common story -- once teachers and students go their separate ways, one or the other often disowns the other. Stevan has not done that to Pendekar Paul, but it seems that the Pendekar's memory is such that he has forgotten all the previous acknowledgments ... Here is the thing, of course: Knowledge, unlike a certification, cannot be retracted. Having never trained with Pendekar Paul, I cannot say how much of what Stevan teaches us has been altered from what he has learned. From what I understand, Stevan's method of teaching is an improvement, and I believe he has codified and made better what he learned, from what others who have trained with Paul have said.
BIG can of worms ... Oh, Brother Tristan, you do like to stir things up, don't you ... ? The answers to your questions depend on whom you ask. From where I sit, I'll offer my hit: Silat Sera(k) is the primary family art. Bukti Negara is Paul de Thouars personal art, created for several reasons, one of which was as a filter. Before Bukti, Sera(k) in the U.S. was a closed-door art, Paul tended to limit his teaching to students of Indonesian (or Dutch-Indondesian) descent. (Stevan is Dutch-Indo, born in Holland, but raised in the U.S.) Before being allowed to study Sera(k), an American student had to demonstrate a willingness to master Bukti, which is (in my opinion) a sketchier version of Sera(k). It works fine, and can certainly stand alone, but Bukti is to Sera as a Reader's Digest Condensed Book is to the full-length novel. The Pendekar is reported to have said it was designed for "old people, cripples, and Americans." The stances were higher, there was a forward lean that has since been played down, and there were fewer djurus and sambuts. Weapon work was also limited. For many years, Victor said that Paul was his primary teacher of Serak -- he had his certification from his older brother posted on his website -- he now says Paul was his second teacher and didn't add much to what he already knew. Victor's personal art under the Serak umbrella is Tongkat, and used much like Bukti was, to check on a student's dedication. Willem has claimed and of late, disclaimed any training in Sera(k). Some of his senior students say he knows the family art, others say not. His lineage of kuntao comes from various places, including his wife's father. Stevan taught Bukti Negara for years as directed by his teacher Paul, using it to screen students who wanted to learn Serak. He stopped teaching Bukti eight or nine years ago, as I recall, after an event in which his loyalty and ability were questioned by the Bukti Negara board of directors.
Greetings all, I will attempt to respond to stuff as it was asked or occured. Kiai Carita, I only know a couple of things, the verbal history of Sera(k), which is at least pretty close to what Mr. Perry has stated up to the time of PDT. I also recognize the "living history", as I have had the opportunity of seeing many of the senior students or instructors move from the various camps (either live or on video). I also recognize that this is what my teacher (PDT) calls the art that he has received, as a direct lineage holder. The art was not to be taught to the general public. Any name will work in a pinch, but people would seem to be using the name of the art and the name of PDT to make money, against what they have vowed to do. Reality Checker, Excellent questions. I wouldn't care what else they call it. As to my qualifications, I am an also a student of PDT in the traditional system. I've been around for a long time and I have seen the "living history". I see what is out "there" and I know what and who we have in our camp. The difference is apparent to me. Mr. Perry's teacher is a very skillful fighter. Much happens behind closed doors in a "closed-door" system. I am not allowed to speak of my training in the traditional and I will not. I will from time to time plague and question what people say on this forum about the traditional system because I know better and there is more to the story... For the most part the people in our camp want to be left alone and train, but I like people to know that what they are hearing may not be the whole story. For the most part I will stick with BN. Mr. Perry, I don't think I mentioned any names either. You stated, " Unless you are intimitely acquainted with the details of each case, making broad comments may lack a certain .... accuracy." I couldn't agree with you more. As far as you having misconceptions about BN, I'm not so sure. BN went "underground" (if you want to call it that) in the beginning of the training phases. It was called a sub-system because not enough knowledge nor enough knowledgeable practioners were within the art to call it a system of its own. Of course, few claim BN as there art because there is no money to be made, due to many misconceptions. I don't imply that your instructor didn't have depth of knowledge in BN, I will say that his depth of knowledge only extends to the depth that was available at the time of his departure. Bukti Negara isn't intended as a filter. You obviously have many misconceptions about BN as you don't understand the purpose of the forward posture, among many other comments including weapon work, and the relevance of number of jurus and sambuts. Of course, PDT acknowledged Steven as a senior student of the traditional, I don't doubt that. I believe Steven was one of the first students. As far as the members of the BN board go, I do know them. It is not my place to repeat. From what I know and have seen, PDT has only asked for truth, keeping your vows, and hard training (that is all he has ever asked of me.) Those who left (or were banished) didn't follow through on one of these. As far as codifying and improving on what PDT has taught him, I disagree. I've seen it. I can answer several more of your questions and statements, but time or oath do not permit. Here are some of my questions: -Did anybody from your camp ever pass the BN instructors test? -If your instructor asked you to not teach something and/or to do something within reason (train), would you follow his/her instructions? -When you take an oath or a vow how long does that oath or vow stand? -Did PDT wrong Steven in any way? Bart
Brother Steve, Thank you for priceless info. I'm going to shut up and hide in my cave now Its getting muddier by the minute... Tristan
Mr. Perry, I don't really care for the way this is going. It's not that I don't feel I can't defend my line of thought, it's just that I don't care too. I really don't want to say something against my oaths. I am pretty sure that we will continue to disagree on a lot of stuff. Let's try to stay out of the bickering (for the most part). You may answer to anything that you feel necessary that I have stated, but don't feel like you have to "defend your honor". I'm not overly concerned anyway. My main purpose for being here is to inform people of BN. It's just a bonus that I get to get some of you guys bent out of sorts. At any rate, I truly am happy that you are happy and I do believe you are getting good stuff. I'm happy, too, so let's just all train (just not together!) Bart
Q&A Guru Bemer: To take things in reverse, the questions first. Yes, I believe two of our number were qualified as beginning gurus in Bukti. I could be wrong, but I thought that both Todd and Tiel had gotten to that level, and were so listed on the first Bukti Negara website -- which was Todd's creation. He maintained it until the Bukti board asked him -- demanded -- that he shut it down. We had several former Bukti gurus drop by from time to time for training, and some who still do frequently. If my instructor asked me to teach or not teach within reason, I would certainly do so. Then again, if I had helped my instructor develop an art and was then ranked as one of the senior-most gurus in that art, and somebody whose teacher I taught the art called my skills into question? I might be tempted to demonstrate them to him first hand. Especially if my teacher just shrugged and washed his hands of it. The taking of an oath requires a number of things, including a partnership with the people to whom I might be making an affirmation. It's a contract, and if one party breaks it, that tends to call the process into question. If you break adat and hormat in my direction, you can't really expect me to hold to it, now can you? If we both swear to keep a secret and you reveal it, then my allegiance to you is moot, isn't it? Stevan hasn't asked for any oaths of allegiance. As far as I know, he's never kicked out a senior student. Yes, the PDT organization did wrong Stevan. I am not bound by any foresworn secrecy oaths, but I'll leave it at that. They know what they did, and why. Ask them. Until that point, Stevan certainly offered nothing less than truth, hard work, and he kept his vows. He taught Sera only to those the Pendekar approved, taught Bukti as a way of separating the serious from those less so as he had been told, and refrained from putting out any videos until after Paul had produced his own series of vids. Which I bought as soon as I joined the ranks of silat players, so I surely do know what Bukti used to look like under Paul's direct supervision. If anybody says that Stevan was not loyal, hard working, and truthful, they are -- not to put too fine a point on it -- full of a word I can't use here without it getting bleeped. I have just exchanged email with one of the Pendekar's former students, a silat teacher of some note with his own system, not currently in Sera(k), who trained with Paul back when Stevan was still training there. He's told me that he and Paul spent hours discussing the arts, including the idea that Bukti Negara was indeed a carrier art. Believe that or not, as you will. As I recall, Paul said as much about Bukti being an entry-level filter and had that posted on his website. It was also mentioned thus on other sites connected to the art by some of Paul's senior students, and if need be, I can probably dig those references up. But I don't think it will matter. I expect that the new and improved Bukti will gloss over those old strictures. I have no problem if the art is now to be considered an end unto itself. But how it is now is not how it was then. As far as Stevan's improving on Paul's teaching methods, you can believe what you like, and I will continue to hold to my own thoughts on the matter. As I said, I don't try to keep up with what Bukti has become. For me, the front stance felt awkward when I learned it, and while the ideas of moving in and thinking forward are certainly valid, it isn't necessary to overbalance to manage that. We do it just fine with our basic stances. Finally, and this will also have to be a matter of opinion, I trained in Bukti long enough to get 2/3rd of the way through what was then the curriculum. I am not expert in it but I learned enough to become familiar with it. Bukti Negara might have evolved muchly in its underground phase, and improved greatly, I don't know. But the Bukti that used to be was the poor child of the father art. The difference between a six-shot revolver and a thirty-round rifle -- the rifle holds more ammuntion, shoots more accurately, reaches longer and hits harder. Until somebody demonstrates otherwise, I can't believe that the daughter has, in the last few years, surpassed the father ... As I have offered to others with whom I have entered into spirited discussions, please feel free to take this offline and have a direct coversation with me via email.
Hey Bart, 1996? We must have tested for our Guru Muda rankings at about the same time. Was Guru Cliff Stewart on your testing board? Well, now. That's certainly one view of things. It also illustrates why the whole "lineage holder" thing is rife with politics and backbiting and may be more trouble than it's worth. A piece of paper can be given or taken away. Declaring someone the heir of a system is a ceremony with precisely as much meaning as the participants give it. Knowledge and ability are not so fragile. Once they've been acquired nobody can take them away. The certificates and titles are not so sturdy. When student and teacher disagree or have a falling out they can be retracted, sometimes politely, sometimes with recrimination and character assassination. I have a little knowledge of the things you are alluding to. There is certainly more than one side to those stories. All I can say is that my teacher has always been fair and honest with us and will not tolerate those who speak ill of Pendekar de Thoaurs. Since he inspires loyalty through his teaching and character his students are inclined to give it freely. If he began to demand it or asked but refused to give in return most of us would leave. Best of luck to you. I'm afraid the troubles within the family have made a lot of people gun-shy about dealing with the brothers or their students. And sometimes "the lineage" is simply a tool of control. The promise of its bestowal or the threat of its removal may have absolutely nothing to do with integrity or quality control and everything to do with pettiness, ego or the joy of bending others to your will. What does "having the lineage" mean? It means that a person has decided to give a title. A title by itself is worthless, meaningless. It's the quality of the man or woman which is important. Since you're bringing Steve and my teacher into this without actually saying his name let's talk about what he does and how he teaches. He teaches the Serak that he learned from your teacher. He does it carefully, slowly, with an attention to detail and quality that is very rare in this country in this era. The personal flavor and the way he explains things may be different than the way his teacher did. Your teacher did so in his turn and his teachers before him. The understanding, the curriculum, the principles, the teaching progressions and the other important things that he learned from Pendekar Paul do not. The two men had a falling out, sad to say. These things happen. Giving a piece of paper to someone else in no way invalidates two decades of training and discipleship. Alright, what is "the real thing"? In what way do the important parts of what we do differ from what you're learning? What principles, attributes and skills are we so deficient in that it shouldn't be called a branch from the same tree? Please be precise here. You're making a pretty serious accusation about the honesty and personal integrity of a man who takes them very seriously. Bart, you've already said Steve is dishonest and betrayed the art for some nefarious personal agenda. Following a slap in the face like that with "but have fun with the inferior tag ends you've been given and have a nice life" doesn't come across as conciliatory or friendly. It's an insult pure and simple and a fairly smarmy one. If you're going to be like that the proper thing, the ethical thing, would be to back up what you're saying. Other than personal issues between my teacher and his what is he doing that separates what he does from what Serak really is? Please be specific. You've been at this about as long as I have, and we come from a common source, so you should - as a Guru - be able to explain in language which we can understand what the crucial differences are. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Indeed, it would. Calling it a stunted weed does not remove its fragrance. Since we're quoting the Bard I'll leave you with one from Othello:
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste I know I'm gonna burn in the seventh circle for this post. I accept my punishment with an open heart. I freely admit that I am asking for it here... Pretty much the hallmark of someone endeavoring to be a GURU and not a GOD. He must have, we don't use it in Indonesia. It's just "Sera". . Kiai, there isn't a whole lot I usually agree with you on, but this is one of those times. Preach on, brother. It does no such thing. You are selling a fantasy. The "Lineage" does not prevent, safeguard or insure a system's success of failure in ANY way, other than a means to add mystique to the physical realm. The work is ENTIRELY in the hands of the teacher and the student. Period. Hard work & effort on BOTH of their parts are what does it. Not anything with "oogah boogah" attached to it. That last sentence was the sales pitch, wasn't it? Because Great Cthulhu FORBID they actually posess an ounce of common sense & have the foresight to see something the founder missed, eh? Wouldn't want them to suddenly wake up and seek something greater than what they know, now would we? Why would you accept this as a regulator for what you think and do in your life? If I want to train with other instructors, that is MY business, not my teacher's. If I feel that life is taking me somewhere else, I would be remiss in my first obligation to ignore that: The obligation I have to MYSELF, who happens to be the second most important person n my life, right after my wife. And it's a true rationalization. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE HUMANS, NOT GODS. We make mistakes. We don't know everything. But the nanosecond that we try to pass off to our students that indeed, we DO know everything, we are lying to them. Period. There are dozens of things I have discovered on my own that staying behind a "closed door" would never have allowed. Which is something else we have, as humans, and especially as Americans:Freedom of choice. The choice doesn't damn us because we "turned our backs" on our teachers. If they were worthy of the title in the first place, then they would recognize when it is time to LET GO. I'm not your frickin' son. Of course, freedom doesn't come very easily to some people.... That is just...Wrong...on so many levels that I simply don't have a good enough command of the english language to rebuke you over it. Call it another name? I feel certain that the upteen YEARS/DECADES that Maha Guru Plinck has invested in his Serak education are no less valid than yours. You call yours something different. I have enjoyed watching this debate. It's like a train wreck...I don't wanna look, but I just can't turn away. I am more and more convinced with every posting of two important elements: 1: Habit, tradition and custom should NOT be above reproach, examination and criticism, nor should the dead rule the living. But we as a species are in absolutely no danger of ever learning that. 2: I am very much on my own island in this stubborn, insubordinate opinion of mine. Which tells me either I'm very far ahead, or hopelessly far behind. That may very well be the case, but I just don't see that many footprints in the sand ahead of me... I said it before, tradition is fine, as long as it isn't dogma. But only see the RARE case of tradition being something to be proud of in an art, and not a thing for which you have to make excuses & give long explainations on before somebody will believe it...But don't take my word for it!! I am starting to enjoy watching how some of you can't wait to pledge your lives, time, and whatever modicum of self-respect you may have had to a man who promises you amazing powers if you can just get through his sub-system, sub-phylum, submarine, ad nauseum. A true "Master" doesn't have to resort to such gimmicks, they have skill. They are known by their excellence, not by their voodoo. Lineage, just the word alone, seems to have a much more hypnotic effect. Honest to DAGON, I don't get how a rational, otherwise intelligent man (woman, whatever) can be so easily hypnotized by a pretty gold coin & the never-fulfilled promise of more. And now everybody's beating thier chests over the martial validity of several students WHO TRAINED WITH THE SAME MAN FOR YEARS!!! And for no better reason than he became crotchety in his old age & said "I changed my mind". And here you all are, saying how the one side didn't really know what the other side knew, and how the others are STILL in the dark about the "truth" of Serak. Well, congratulations kiddies, THAT'S YOUR LINEAGE. There's your legacy right there. It's out on a flagpole for the world to see, mentioned at length on just about every major silat forum on the web somewhere. It's enough to make me wonder if I'm on the right planet sometimes.
Bovine Scatology Well, that makes two of us. I haven't cared much for the ways things have been going in much of Silat Sera(k) for a long time. And part of why is commentary like yours. A snipe, in passing, that is outright insulting, followed by a patronizing attempt at sincerity -- "Yes, I'm happy you are learning that ... stuff, whatever it is, but you should call it something else because it isn't Serak." I have heard that one before. It didn't impress me then, it impresses me no more now. It's not about me defending my honor. It's about me offering the truth as I see it, to counter a mistaken impression people might get if I allow such tripe to ripen without kicking it off the sidewalk. As for me being bent out of sorts? Why, perish the thought! I merely respond as I have been trained: When attacked, I don't back up. I move forward to close. And I'm having fun doing it. I'm grinning from ear to ear even as we speak. Don't care for the way it's going? The exit is just over there. I won't think any the less of you if you withdraw. Your oaths and all. For a long time, I was more temperate in my responses to such blather as has come out of other branches about ours. No longer. If your purpose is to inform people about BN, then mine is to set the record straight as to who knows what about Sera as I see it. So when I see el toro's scatalogical leavings? I am gonna point it out. Such as I have been doing in this thread. If it bothers you to get your hands dirty, then maybe you should stop slinging mud, hey? You join the group, and withing a couple of days, you tell me the art I've been studying for a decade isn't what I say it is? And offer a superior smile as to the efficacy of your study? Please. I have met and played with a few gurus from other Sera(k) branches and from Bukti Negara, and I'm still waiting for one who has something we don't have. I am old, slow, and not even close to being a guru and I can keep with them. Either they are absolute geniuses at being able to hide their vastly superior knowledge when pressed, or it ain't there. I'm going with "it ain't there."
