So when you spar in Silat, you actually apply neck cranks past the breaking point? Wouldn't this cause you to run out of sparring partners rather quickly? Also, what's up with all the caps?
I train with Steve Benitez and the groundwork/grappling/etc... we do, ends up in various ways... you either knock the other person out, or you lock them until they tap, or you choke them out until the tap out or pass out. I have to agree that too much of the silat I have seen doesn't have the groundwork that would be considered great by BJJ guys, etc... but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work under certain conditions. At the end of the day, it really does boil down to the individual and not so much the style. There are so many variables in confrontations, that we cannot REALLY plan for each possibility, just try and be as prepared as we can, and learn to respond, rather than react.
Yeah, because noone's ever been sucker punched from behind while standing before. Question: Why are you clubbing alone on a friday night? Do you have no friends?
Scott, Just as I have pointed out for you to do, those individuals added submissions, locks, holds and etc. to their Silat. Silat as a whole does not do Controls such as Joint Locks, Armbars, Chokes and etc. You have found all the Silat videos that have these aspects so I would again suggest that you incorporate BJJ into your Silat and have exactly what you want! Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
So you're telling me that when I was attacked and used an armbar from guard to dislocate my attacker's elbow, it wasn't due to my BJJ training?
Scott, You're correct you can't break student's bones in class but you can teach how to do it and train your mind to actually break it in a real encounter and go through the motions to train the subconscious & muscle memory. It's like this, BJJ trains to tap people out not to break. So in a real confrontation their subconscious & muscle memory won't do a break it will just lock the joint waiting for the tap! Now is that to say that in the heat of battle when your latched on like a pitbull that a joint won't get overextended or a bone broken no of course not and there have been those things happen even in competitions but they were ACCIDENTS! That is enough on that subject we are digressing, so please read my other post to you and just incorporate BJJ into your Silat. Sincerely, Teacher: Eddie Ivester
On the contrary, I have been suckerpunched from behind in the past. However, I fail to see how this negates getting kicked in the head whilst grappling on the ground. LOL, why are you getting all personal? Firstly, I'm 40years old with a family so i don't tend to go clubbing at all Secondly, I have in the past been attacked and outnumbered on the way home alone on several occasions. And finally, you are much more likely to be attacked whilst alone.
Well ICT I think you are insinuating that no silat has ground locks and I could not agree with that statement at all and why get heated? You almost act like you are getting frustrated and you want me to take bjj to complement my silat? Im not into that....im not gonna do some compact moves then do a giant turn taking 10 seconds and fall into a sloppy armbar. Silat has this stuff, its just more compact. Ive seen gurus with decades of experience that got ground work, you can't really say otherwise cause i've already seen it. Silat is an extensive art and I don't think most silat gurus would deny that they have to deal with ground defense or what happens if they get tackled/mounted, etc. In my silat class I learned mount reversals and quick submissions from guard.....no it wasn't bjj but obviously my instructor was aware that those were sectors of fighting that people will deal with if taken to the ground. Even untrained people if pummelling you on the ground will either pass the guard area or attack you in your guard. Now consider this....if you can't even do a submission/break to a resisting opponent on the ground ...he's got you and his friend will kick you in the head, what now? If you train ground work and positions though, trust me you can be fast as hell on the ground and if there is any art that's known for its speed of getting to or from the ground its silat.
As opposed to Silat training how .... You don't break the arm in training either, so what's the difference?
They are the same thing: a completely meaningless red herring used by people who are threatened by sportfighting and want an easy dismissal, no matter how illogical. As here: The "on a friday night" presumably means after a night downtown, or elese why would you include that detail? And since that is an activity you don't actually do, let me educate you, as a 23 year old who goes out every weekend: If you're going to a place on the busiest night of the week with no backup and without knowing the staff, you are a <<snip>>. This isn't godamn rocket science, people. You can avoid this whole argument by having friends (I realize that for some of you this is a near insurmountable obstacle) and not going to places you don't know alone at night. If, after that, you're still getting jumped, guess what: You're buggered. Hard. Your Silat is not going to help you. You're going to get swarmed, punched from many different angles at the same time, pulled to the ground, booted, and eventually end up with an awful headache, a lump in your throat and the shards of your tribal warrior persona scattered around you. I've been on the giving and recieving end of these kinds of attacks. Don't fool yourself. Mod Edit: Do not swear. I will remove posts that contain swearing from here on.
Well, well ImKira, I'm not quite sure what has caused your rather aggresive and disproportionate response. However, I'm so glad you have attempted to educate me with your whole 23 years of life experience(BTW I was working the door at a club at your age ). So..... Although, both could be termed something akin to 'unexpected attacks outside the line of vision', they are clearly not the same. I would suggest you have a chat with an A&E employee, you will find out there are far more head injuries caused by kickings on the ground than the odd suckerpunch from behind. So, these attacks are not meaningless, but rather commonplace. Aside from knife attacks, head injuries are statistically responsible for a high proportion of serious or lethal injuries. As for 'threatened by sportfighting', I'm not sure what you are getting at All I have suggested is some ground techniques would be ill advised in some situations! A big presumtion! Statistically most violent attacks happen after closing time on Fridays nights. Not everyone is out clubbing with a protective entourage of friends Do they walk you all the way to your front door? There are many many reasons someone could be alone in the wrong place at the wrong time on a Friday night! You don't say I must stop living in a bubble and get out in the real world from time to time Just a headache? What no broken ribs? No fractured skull? Mate, you've never had a serious beating then. So, do you prefer to give or receive? Does being a competitive sporting martial artist teach you to, as you have admitted, 'give' out these kind of attacks? Luckily for me my 'tribal warrior persona' (whatever that is ) has only ever been used to protect myself or others :love:
Rick Tucci's DVD's have some good controls in them. I think they're available on his site through ESPY TV. Also Ron Balicki's DVD on Kali-Silat has controls and submissions on it. To me, a lock or submission is a good way to control someone and keep your options open. The way I've learned them and like to train them is to leave myself in a position where I can still deal with another attacker if need be. (my opponent on his side, or on his face is ideal) That way I can restrain the person without causing serious injury. If another attacker arrives or the situation changes I can then break the limb, or disable the person in some manner, and move on.
Silat Finishes: Taking the consciousness IMMEDIATELY (K.O) attacks to appropriate Pressure points or Nerves. Eye Strikes Throat Strikes Air/ Blood Chokes Neck Cranks Atlas Bone damaging blows Ripping fingers off Dislocations Disrupting the spine with a knee, elbow, or a devastating throw Stabbing Shooting Of course keep in mind the LAW where you live and try your best not to get into any trouble. Target Denial is always better than life in Prison. Or move to Florida where defending yourself if you have a CWC License is more acceptable..... To learn that stuff you would need to find a guru willing to teach you who actually has had to use such things in the real world. Guru Cliff Stewart would be a good place to start. cliffstewart.com his W.A.R series has a lot of good stuff that can certainly get one out of trouble fast. But again going in person to train with someone of that caliber is better than a VIDEO any day. Peace Santiago
I'd also like to add that another good DVD for finishes (mostly non-lethal) is Ron Balicki's panantukan DVD set.
To GajahSilat I believe your absolutely correct about so called "finishing techniques" not only in Silat but in all traditional martial arts. I study Tai Chi Chuan and Silat Lian Padukan and have never yet encoutered a technique I believe to be a restraint or a hold or for that matter a block. If we forget about sports martial arts and focus on 'street arts' there is no time to block, parry, hold and finish. You have to break 'em up as quickly as possible so you can leg it before all there mates turn up, same as its always been.
just another angle from another pesilat salam.... i know its a late post but here we go...just felt enthusiastic about participating in this. in my training ive always wanted to do drastic things and flashy techniques and this was my pursuit for quite a while. when i came accross the adat and adab of the malays (and i say malays in the most passive and religious terms not those who are patriotic and all that) i began to have a deeper understanding as to why the malays practice silat. and guess what!!! it was not for survival or defense as the average man would have it, but to the refined pesilat silat was a system, a system of moral maintenance and social stability. A system that allowed you to pursue choices to contribute to positive change physically, mentally, socially and spiritually. ppl always seem to mention the types of blows and breaks but that is not the aim of silat...ask your Guru, it was never the aim. The best way in silat is to stop the fight in the quickest and swiftest manner without hurting the opponent. Your opponent must find in you the complete being...not that you are perfect but that your aspirations are clearly showing to be directed in this line. If he attacks you with ferocity, your aim to subdue him will be of a lesser impact...all you must do is get him in the lock which you are taught...called the submission sequence...once in this grip you give him the option to end his behaviour or if he does not he will then suffer...again your aim is not to kill or damage but a lesson of some pain will get to his thick skull. but im not the expert, just the wisdom of my Silat peers. The 3 ways of Silat the way of the tongue, the way of avoidance and the way of subduing without hurt. i was told the highest of all confrontations would be to stop your opponent without hurting him...we can do this, but its the mindset that holds the key...i took almost 5 years to grasp just the lankah silat...not practice it...just graps its essence...everything in silat is essence...take all you can from your teacher....i wish i did lol.... btw, I am a pesilat of Persatuan Seni Pukulan Melaka Malaysia...the origins of the style are both Sumatra and Melaka..the 2 warrior capitals of silat heritage.
someone attacks me, Im not interested in showing him how to be a better person, I'm kickin his ass a. to get away and b. retaliation
Mas Raden-Rahmat, I think 'growth' for want of a better term, is part of all Martial Arts, not just silat. I look at it this way. You are learning to master your own body through movement, posture and breathing. This in turn gives greater awareness of one's self. You learn to push your body beyond what is considered normal and a part of this is not only physical but psychological as mind and body are intrinsically linked. This in turn creates a greater awareness of the way mind and body function together. Of course learning mastery of one's self both and physical and psychological self control is surely a good thing Some may interpret this as a spiritual phenomenon, some not. In the end is it really important what we call it? It's down to personal interpretation, but of course we will mostly interpret things via our own culture. The same(or similar) experience may just be manifesting intself a little differently. Nevertheless, we are all experiencing something that has more similarities than differences, and I think this is something that often gets overlooked. There is always more similarity than difference However, we are learning how to hurt people if the need arises! The if, when, and how much force to use, of course are the key issues. Anyway, Mas Raden-Rahmat, I warmly welcome you to the forum-selamat datang. As a newcomer you will not be aware of much that has gone before. Many talented and insightful posters have been driven away by infighting, religious difference, politics and bickering. As I said, being pesilat and humans, we have a lot more in common than a little cultural difference! I don't mean to lecture, but sometimes it would be good to just talk about techniques Salam Hormat
