So it's your "mission" to avenge those who have been insulted by the Moore family? I'm not sure I understand why you have made it your own personal vendetta to do so? I am aware of the insults and lies because I've seen it first hand. And I've seen people be fed such lies first hand too, seeing that it's happened to me, AND I am seeing it now with a friend of mine now.
Maybe not a "mission" but I am thinking that the concept here is Family first. As far as the facts, just try finding some old school ex-Shou Shuers (70s-80s) especially if in the central valley, they can verify pretty much everything that has been written.
That may or may not be a problem. I know some black belts personally (when they received their black belt, I have not the slightest idea) and they do not want to tell me the truth about their art because "they love it". One actually bit my head off because she said that Shou Shu is the best out there (I came across that answer too many times... and also, keep in mind that this specific student, graduated high school with me 5 years ago). That's when I gave up and decided to not even try to get that kind of information from people that are black belts with Shou Shu.
I see your point and it is unfortunate that your friends can not be honest with you. I think that those reactions are the answer to your questions on history. Lee has listed numerous contacts of ppl from the 60s & 70s who may give you a different perspective on the situation. Notice I said perspective not truth because truth in general is perspective driven. Good luck to you and I hope that this does not ruin your friendships. As an aside I too feel that Shou Shu is a great art with a lot to offer, however I was fortunate enough to learn it with out all the extra baggage good luck to you and in your journey.
Refresh http://homepage.mac.com/tony_baltera.../Interview.pdf 1975 article http://www.scfudji.de/eng.site/ShouShu01.html http://www.kokarate.com/TechniquesC.html#top http://www.bokfudo.com/HallOfFame1960s.aspx http://www.bokfudo.com/HallOfFame1970s.aspx http://www.network54.com/Forum/32658...rd+of+Al+Moore http://silvertigerkungfu.com/SilverT...formation.html According to the 1975 article, the baggage (Lie) started from Mr Moore and family from the beginning! And as far as truth. Al Tracy, Steve Labounty, Richard Lee, all have the same story. Thay all have contact #, wish some of you would do your own research. Got Phone? L.W. Best to All.
L.W. Good repost & info. We use different words but yes, that is what I meant. I knew the history before I started training & never repeated it as "truth" but as Shifu Sutherby has stated, reported the history as stated but no as truth or verified. Best of luck to you and your family. Thank you
wheres the love? Why do so many people hate shou shu? I have been studying it for the past 9 months and i enjoy it and find it to be very functional. There is nothing special about it, its not this great new style that leaves all the others in the dust, where you learn some magic bs. I asked my instructor one time what the difference in shou shu was from other styles he simple said nothing, its kung fu with a big emphasizes, on the "Fighting style of the beast". If i understand correctly learned the beast is more then just fighting it also goes down to how you breath, meditation and so on. We just work on the fighting of the beast. and we love the snap kick. :lowblow:
Sometimes, I wish all these people would disassociate themselves from Chinese martial arts and it makes me sick to be a CMA guy.
Ultiamtely, this is the core point - the reputation of Chinese martial arts averages out... for the very few serious experts, there are millions of hobby trainers, jokers, frauds, all claiming to be experts and averaging the reputation lower and lower and lower.
I dont see how shou shu ruined CMA reputation, if anyone ruined it, it was the CMA who tried to fight in the old school UFC and lost. The reputation for martial arts has been down for a long time from what i know, for me what did it was UFC, watching all those 10 degree black belts getting the **** kicked out of them by some no degree MMA fighter. What i enjoy about the school where i go to is we spend time learning grappling and a little of other styles to try to close some of those loop holes in kung fu. :hat: i like this hat, these too. :running: :turtle: :argue: :banana: :fight1: :fight2: this guy didnt help you all out too much either [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8UKDzVmzt8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8UKDzVmzt8[/ame]
let me put this into perspective for you. 1- We have a martial art system 2- The only evidence of it's effectiveness I've seen comes from prearranged demos against non-resisting opponents 3- A false lineage is created in order to try to legitimize the art form to the uninformed majority unfortunately, those three points occur in more styles than shou shu. As a collective whole (meaning not only shou shu), that would delegitimize CMA because there is no sense of what is truth and untruth. No idea if what you're learning is real or fantasy.
What other styles are there that are questionable? I know shou shu works, why wouldnt it? A few people at my school have been in several real fights and fared real well. Shou shu anit for sparring we dont train for sparring maybe only 10-20% of the time. Sparring and fighting arent nearly the same.
another martial art style that is very questionable (although not CMA) is yellow bamboo.... yeah. Although sparring and street fighting aren't the same thing (sparring has rules, etc), sparring prepares you mentally and physically for rigors you will endure within a real fight. It also serves as a proving ground for your system, and allows you to learn which moves work well with your body and which do not. It shows which moves would work realistically against a resisting opponent and which only work under compliance.
you cannt really test techniques in sparring though such as say rising knee or brushing lances. Sparring is a great tool for learning without a question, i have only done some sparring and found it to be a good learning tool, but its not the same as a real fight. In a real fight the other guy is pumped full of anger charging at you throwing everything he has. In a sparring match there is no anger and such u guys walk in circles throwing punches ect. I usually test out a techniques is by having my partner throw me some real weapons. Even if you do get hit in the noise or stumble it doesnt mean you have a bad technique it just means you need to learn how to get it to work. This is one of the reason why i think sparring styles dont work well in a real fight because sparring isnt the same as a full blown slug fest.
First off, not knowing how to make something work usually means you have bad technique (or better phrased, poor execution of technique). That's what sparring teaches you, how to perfect techniques. Second, sparring a seasoned martial artist is arguably harder than defending yourself against a slugger on the street who has no fight experience at all. The fact that most people don't know how to throw a proper punch (youtube any kind of street fight for proof) is evidence enough. Most knockouts occur in street fights because both people have their hands out of guard and are wildly swinging their arms. And what is this idea of not being able to test techniques in sparring? Sparring is the perfect time to test out new techniques. Because you're not in a life or death situation, you can work on new moves without fear of drastic consequences.
You know, just because someone has fights doesn't mean that they have skill. A pro fighter who never has street fights is still a better fighter than a thug who has skill-less thug fights every Saturday. 'I fight' is like 'I play football' - it doesn't actually denote any skill necessarily.
It's <removed> 2009 already, and we STILL have <removed> arguing that there are "sparring styles" and that "sparring doesn't train you to fight" and "our <removed> is too deadly spar with !!!" I think I'm gonna commit suicide. On another note, I'm gonna go sau choy some bags. BRB.
