shopkeeper defend's against knife attack

http://youtu.be/gvvU72KfruU


I dont teach knife defence but like us all I am ocasionally drawn on the subject. I think the opening sequence is a good illistration of my view of keeping one eyes focusing on the chest area keeping the hands and always the waist band within the focus. The robber (once the knife is pulled) is what I call 'talking with the knife' pointing with it and telling you what to do. This is very intimadating and frighting but when challanged he changes to ice pick grip. Which is more aggresive and the assilant can use more force on that downward type action.
In my view a very useful bit of CCTV

 

And the guy behind him just stands there... Shopkeeper could have been stabbed and he just stood there and watched...

I mean come on, pick something up FFS!

 

The shop-keeper had a defensive structure in the form of a -high- counter top and a small doorway that is relatively easy to defend. This allowed him to stand back and whack at the robbers head and hands any-time the robber reached for the till or tried to climb over. The guy behind had no such luxury to defend him if his attacks failed.

If our man from behind had made an attempt and failed to cleanly disable his target; then the robber could of simply turned on him and turned the by-standers guts into mince.

Just my two cents.

 

Perfectly normal reaction. The shock of what people will happily watch on tv or at the cinema happening right in front of them (or to them) will immobilise a significant number of people.

 

I'm sure that sort of defensive logic was going through either of their minds at that moment in time.

It's not really about the logic though, at least not to me. It's about someone being in danger and others just standing by and letting it happen. All too often in this day and age people just carry on as if nothing is happening. Just walk on by as someone is getting their face caved in or is being robbed.

But I'm sure the guy would keep telling himself it was the right thing to do if the Shopkeeper had been stabbed and died from his injuries.

Bravo.

But what if he had of stabbed the shopkeeper, then what? What if he then turns on the guy behind him? What's he going to do then? He could have had the element of surprise. His participation could have led to subduement, or an even faster retreat by the attacker.

One could only speculate, but it's hardly like there's only one way for a scenario like this to play out.

Credit to the storekeeper for having a pair, he didn't just defend himself but the guy behind him. He did more than anyone else did.

And yeah you guys might be right, logically. But I just don't agree with standing by and letting events play out while someone else could get seriously hurt. Just not in my nature even if I do put myself at risk.

 

The separation will be a psychological factor as much as it will be logical. Barriers are very powerful tools and we naturally gravitate to put things between ourselves and things we don't like (ever wondered why people who are nervous fold their arms or cup their groin.. simple Body language really). As such, not having that big object of separation and safety (see note 1) will have most people backing up. Especially when they are not invested in the out-come (the shop-keeper was in his own place of work, with his money in front of him, those factors of pride and direct financial loss are going to be big motivators).

The bold part is what you would LIKE to believe about yourself, many many people think like you, but maybe 0.02% of them will actually behave like they think they would.

No one is disagreeing about whether or not helping people is the right thing, just pointing out the naivety in sitting behind a computer screen dead certain about how you would react to an armed robbery.

1. AND WHEN THERE IS A GOD DAMN KNIFE IN PLAY

 

A few takings aren't worth dying for.

 

I don't know if it was because of the way the camera's perspective was, but the guy standing behind the would-be-robber seemed to be smaller in stature. That's another factor to consider as most would be intimidated by sheer size, not even considering a 6" long knife.

Also, JWT is right on in my opinion. The guy was in shock, or otherwise he would have ran at least, not frozen an arm's length away from a knife-wielding assailant.

 

fauldhouse shopkeepers haha

 

lol at one point in the video the guy takes a full force blow from the stool right on the noggin, asking for another is just greedy lol.

 

Unfortunately you don't know anything about my character, what I have done or what I have experienced in my life to even make such a statement.

The difference between you and me?

I do.

 

Unreal combat wrote

He neither defended himself nor the guy who was standing next to the knife man.The robber was intent on getting his hands in the till and was using the knife to ward off the shopkeeper and make some space.The shopkeeper was attacking the robber and was in no position to defend the man standing next to the knife man as the counter was in the way.Besides the knife man had no interest in the man standing next to him as he wasn't posing a threat.

The situation would be entirely different if the knife man had gone into the shop with the intent to kill the owner.in that sort of situation people do have a duty to do something provided it is within their capacity.its best to look at what is really going on before reacting in some kind of gung-ho Rambo manner.

 

Like the guy in the shop I probably wouldn't have stepped in.
No one was really in "enough" danger to warrant me risking my life IMHO.
The robber was seeking to intimidate rather than hurt anyone.
I think you should get a good description and be a good witness but the situation didn't warrant some "Death Wish" stuff.

 

What I do know for a fact is people (especially martial artists) are incredibly bad at predicting what they would and wouldn't do.

Sure you COULD be an Ex-SAS member but truthfully, the high probability is that you'd stand back and do nothing just like everyone else who says "I would jump in". There are no grounds for anyone -including yourself- to believe you are an exception to the rule, so bashing on an un-armed civilian for not trying to tangle with a robber wielding a knife in order to save someone else's takings for a day is beyond ridiculous.

 

If you say so bud. Like I said before, you know nothing about "me" to state, or even assume, what I would or wouldn't do. It doesn't even have anything to do with the fact I've trained in martial arts, though that certainly gives some advantage to a degree. More just my character and life experiences, aswell as past actions in life.

But you keep on talking like you know anything about me. Feel free. I'm not going to argue further on this because in all honesty it's a bit pointless to. Come back when you know me.

I'll agree with the rest to some degree. It is a bit ridiculous to judge an unarmed, untrained, civilian and maybe even a bit harsh. But then I already stated that I was willing to accept the logic behind it earlier, regardless of my opinion, so your point is pretty much moot here.

And it's not like the shopkeeper had training either, exept maybe in the WWE with those chair shots, haha.

 

You're naive enough to think asking a civilian to jump an armed robber is a reasonable request. That is enough in these circumstances! The observation based on the fact that again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.... ...and again the people who say "I would jump in on a knife wielding robber" are no different to the 99% of the population, totally undermines any attempt to backhand bystanders who don't want to get tangled up in an armed robbery.

Even those who would sincerely and intentionally jump in tend to have enough experience of those kinds of encounters to know that un-prepared by-standers generally do not attempt to try their luck with people who are armed with lethal weapons and that to do so out of pure altruism for another victim is an act of extra-ordinary bravery.

Put it simple, it's very easy to type "I would do XYZ" a lot harder to make that instant decision when you are in the moment and the threat is present, for that reason it is un-reasonable to accost someone for not living up to such heroics. Even if you are the type capable of such.

 

I don't think Unreal Combat was trying to boast or showcase his own bravado here, he appeared to merely type out his frustration at having to witness someone freeze in such a dangerous way, putting himself and the clerk at greater risk. Yes, obviously the bystander went into shock. But UC is former military I believe, and most of his friends are probably former military if he is, and when you surround yourself with the sort of people who do rush into danger, you can sometimes forget that everyone isn't wired that way. Some people handle stress very badly.

I can sympathize with UC's frustration here, because so many of my friends are the "rush into danger" sort, and though I'm learning to temper my own youthful White Knight Syndrome with some more careful consideration in my rapidly growing years, I'm just retarded/idealistic enough for it be pretty challenging still.

Anyway, just something to consider for where some of those type of impulsive comments can come from.

 

I'll just point you back to this...

And I think it would be a good idea to take into consideration what John R. Gambit says here aswell.

You would be pretty much spot on.

If I wanted to boast, or showcase, I'd sit here and start spouting out what I've done, what I've experienced, but I don't. This isn't a dick waving contest, neither is it really anyone else's business (alot of what I have experienced isn't exactly very nice anyway, not even for me). I just state I, personally, would not stand by and do nothing. I know I wouldn't for a fact, and that is based on past actions and experiences. I know myself, better than anyone else here on this forum.

It doesn't matter what other people think of that, it doesn't matter about logic, probabilities or how easy it is to type on the internet. That is my nature and character, and something no one can change regardless of what they, or even I, think about it logically when attempting to analyse it on an internet forum.

 

While I can understand your point of view, keep in mind that not all situations would be prudent to jump right into a quickly escalating situation. Every situation is different. The guy who didn't act may have frozen in fear. That's most likely. Or he may had been thinking about jumping in but his wife and kid were in the back of the store still picking up a few things and he didn't want to risk something happen to them.

While the robber had a knife, he was mostly using it for intimidation value and was more concerned about getting the money than actually stabbing anyone. He's still a threat as he's armed and unpredictable, so if you're unarmed hopping into a fight with an armed opponent is a sure way to be a dead hero.