[shooting] Condition 3 or Condition 1 carry

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Mitlov, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    For those not familiar with the terminology, Condition 3 is carrying with a full magazine but an empty chamber. Condition 1 carry is with a round in the chamber and the safeties (internal or external) engaged.

    For those who carry for self-defense purposes, I thought it'd be interesting to hear which you prefer and why. On most US-based firearms forums, condition one is held up as the only reasonable option for a firearm carried for self-defense purposes. And for most US law enforcement, condition 1 carry is required for on-duty officers. On the other hand, Condition 3 carry was the prescribed method of carry in the US military for most of the duration of the 1911's life as a service pistol, and it remains prevalent in Israel (indeed, Condition 3 carry is sometimes called "Israeli carry"). And I recently found a very interesting argument on this blog for Condition 3 carry being considered a valid option as well, even though the author certainly was not knocking the idea of Condition 1 carry.

    http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/2010/09/myths-of-israeli-method-of-carry-or-why.html

    I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts here about Condition 1 carry versus Condition 3 carry, which they prefer, and why.
     
  2. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    In all my duty and personal carry weapons, I always carry in condition 1..I carry a 9mm on duty and a 1911 for personal carry (which is cocked and locked) with the safety on and hammer back, round in chamber. Ive been carrying this way since I was active duty military and even during my private security duties.. This is how I was taught and old habits are hard to break..
     
  3. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    We always walked around training (stateside),(in country) on camps, forwards operating bases, and patrol bases in condition 3. As soon as you "leave the wire" or begin "life training" it's condition 1 all the way. You walk around in condition 1 if there is a possibility of a threat. I suppose you should walk in C1 whenever you perceive that there may be a threat, and your weapon remain in C3 when you believe there to be little to no potential thread (which is just to avoid misfires really).

    Edit: Duty officers wearing a 9mm stateside would carry their pistol in C1. When we literally just got off the bus back to the U.S. from Afghanaland, we had to turn our weapons into the armory and there was an superb asshat Staff Sgt turning his 9mm into the armory who was coming off of duty. He clearly didn't know how to operate a weapon, because a round fired. One of our guys went to go help him and he was trying to clear the pistol by racking the slide back (which he was having a hard time doing) with his finger on the trigger. We wanted to kill him. I hope he got busted down to a private for that crap.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  4. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    What ever trips your trigger! :D:woo:

    Sorry, couldn't resist!
    Also I agree with what Ero said.
    I don't think carrying in condition 3 because of lack of training is a good idea. If you are going to carry a gun you should make it your business to get good training and lots of practice!
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Condition 1 always....no exceptions, no compromises. It's a complicated enough physical and psychological process to be up and willing to fire anyway...adding an extra step is just dumb to be honest
     
  6. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    At least with my 1911, it's not a question of adding a step but substituting one. Racking the slide versus flicking off the manual thumb safety. On the other hand, if you had a Glock or a Springfield XD, then yeah, you're adding another step to the process.

    With my 1911, on one hand, Condition 1 would allow me to do it completely one-handed, but on the other hand, Condition 3 seems harder to mess up in a panic situation (the thumb safety being small and stiff, versus the gross-motor-motion of racking the slide) and can be done with either hand dominant (my 1911 doesn't have an ambidextrous thumb safety).
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually that is a good caveat - as a shameless Glock advocate I forget that it has a streamlined process
     
  8. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Tangent: I've sometimes wondered why people refer to Glocks with a round in the chamber as being in Condition 1 instead of Condition 0. The Condition 0-4 system was first designed to describe 1911s, and a 1911 will only fire once it's in condition 0. So even though they're mechanically very different, a Glock with a round in the chamber, from the user's perspective, is equivalent to a 1911 in Condition 0 instead of Condition 1.
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Tradition? Force of habit?

    Amazingly I have encountered idiots who walk around with their chamber empty ON DUTY
    - the mind boggles at the stupidity
     
  10. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    A habit perchance carried over from formerly using revolvers?
     
  11. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  12. slasha

    slasha Banned Banned

    In the British army we tened to look at pistols as fairly useless and the FN 9mm SLP was always carried with no round in the chamber, but if it was cold and wet and you had gloves on some one did tell me they thought it would be easier to pull the slide back than mess with the fiddly little safetey.
     
  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    In everything I've read, many/most military units have historically advocated carrying a pistol in Condition 3 (particularly the 1911 during its 74 years as the US Army's service pistol); but police organizations discourage condition 3 carry or even forbid it outright. Interesting dichotomy; I'm not sure what to make of it.
     
  14. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    My, COMPLETELY UNEDUCATED GUESS, would be that you are more likely to be fighting close quarters as police officer than you would be in the military.

    Genuinely interested in where this is going so if someone wants to completely over-rule my intuition, then go ahead.
     
  15. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Interesting. But the safety of the Glock is within the trigger. It became a convenient placement of the safety. Instead of having to disengage a safety somewhere else on the frame, it is placed within the trigger. Also back up with two other safety measures making it a three safety feature.

    Because the three safeties are not off until a round is actually fired, it cannot be a Condition 0...But it is a paradox :p
     
  16. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    With a Glock in "Condition 1," the trigger is hot; pull the trigger and it goes bang. With a 1911 in "Condition 1," the trigger is not hot. With a 1911 in "Condition 0," the trigger is hot; pull the trigger and it goes bang.

    This naming scheme does not seem consistent or helpful to me.
     
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Interesting. So the Glock doesn't have a safety to disengage?
     
  18. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    All of the three internal safeties on a Glock are disabled by a trigger pull. So it's profoundly drop-safe, but if there's a round in the chamber, and you pull the trigger (or the trigger snags on something), it WILL go off. There's nothing else that needs to be done first. That's why I think that a Glock in "Condition 1" is more comparable to a 1911 in Condition 0 than Condition 1.
     
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    This sounds utterly odd to me.
    Surely the point of safety catch is that it stops the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled?
     
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The safety is to stop an accidental discharge, typically in the event of a non-trigger pull (usually a drop of the gun)
     

Share This Page