I have a question directed towards anyone who studies tomiki/shodokan aikido... I have take the kote gaeshi zenpo(spelling?) but one thing that I am having trouble with is trying to take a fall for gedan ate... i have been mainly doing a backfall but my sensei keeps telling me that it should be more circular and that if i do it correct my body will actually spin off my tori's knee.... someone recommended that i almost do a "sideways" zenpo where I would almost zenpo over my tori's knee... however I find this difficult to do since I am already off balance and it just feels very awkward..... any tips from anyone????
I dont know much about shodokan/tomiki aikido. but a typical breakfall from a kote gaeshi usually involves the uke turning their hips so their hand is at their own obi and then execute a flipping breakfall. Tori is suppose to control your decent. He should make you fall the appropriate way by manipulating your kazushi, if he lets you fall backwards then he isnt executing the throw right. My personal feeling is the uke should end up where you put him, not where he decides to go.
Strangely it might be worth trying this breakfall at speed first then slowing it down to kata speed. If uke comes charging in, just drop low for the gedan ate, then rise just before contact is made. Uke will have to 'bounce' around the side of tori, and a sensible way out is to take a koto gaeshi style ukemi. When done slowly, uke has to have much more confidence to throw their legs up high to get the required rotation (so they don't land on their head!) Also, RELAX! Hard when you know whats coming, but worth trying as its a cracking technique.
The trouble with gedan ate (and in other styles koshi-nage etc) falls is that control is lost and it ends up being part breakfall. Many aikido people do not like breakfalls.
Oh me too. I come from a Judo background so breakfalls (or handstands etc) are 2nd nature. But I have noticed quite a few Aikido people who expect to be able to roll smoothly out of every technique, and end up avoiding things like koshi-nage etc.
I too have a Judo background a love taking those large circle falls and backfalls.... but one thing that I have noticed in my years of practice is that if either my tori or myself doesn't give it all i get hurt... this is true for like a ippon seoi nage where if done correctly the tori will pretty much whip me around and have me land on my side.. if done improperly i end up taking a real hard fall on my back one of the hardest things to change from Judo to Aikido was having to take that zenpo (spelling) in order for me not to have my wrist separated from me... that's what i am noticing also in the gedan ate... (judokas would call this a sukui nage).. it seems after the completion of the technique it rests on the uke not to get "killed" so i've been trying to land properly however, i was looking at www.tomiki.org where they have the animated junana hon kata... in this nariyama sensei's uke takes a backfall... whereas my sensei and seminars i have been to have said to do it more like a "over the knee sideways kote gaeshi fall" (best way for me to explain it) any suggestions??
The reason for that is that the junanahon is considered a basic kata, and forms part of the shodokan kyu grade syllabus up to 2nd kyu. It appears again for shodan against a tanto. Nariyama shihan said in a seminar last year that they should be practiced as such. It is not neccessarily incorrect to train with 'bigger' throws, but for the technical aspect of the syllabus, gedan ate is done as the video's show. In randori, chances are you'll have to flip them right over your hip.
Try pushing off into the breakfall from your leading foot and try it pushing off from your trailing foot. You will find one makes it easier the other makes it harder. I can't recall which one works for me. But you are basically doing a sort of cross between a pivot breakfall(Kote Gaeshi) and a forward roll.
Firstly I have absolutley NIL experience in Tomiki Ryu so please excuse me for hijacking this thread slightly, as I'd like to comment on the enclosed quote. I too have come across a number of aikidoists, quite often yudansha, who really do shy away from applications that require more than a basic roll form of ukemi. IMHO the problem stems from a lack of desire to devote the obvious time required to learn Ukemi to a very high standard. To me, it is equally obvious that the quality of Ukemi presented to you as Tori, has a direct effect upon your ability to progress. the lower the standard of Uke's Ukemi, the lower the standard of technique you can apply - Pretty obvious really however, many fail to see the importance of high quality ukemi. Regards DaveH
Well there's no ukemi without uke (sorry). And I personaly beleive that making uke is one of the most important aspects of Aikido training.
