On numerous threads it is said, that in order to undderstand the "True" Bujinkan teaching , you need to have a solid relationship with (one of) the Japanese shihan. Practically every mega dan out there claims to have such a relationship. My question is, how do you go about building such a relationship? Is it simply a question of showing up at their dojo with a bottle of sake in hand? . How do you keep the relationship? After all would you call a student that only visited your dojo once a year "your" student?
Same way as any other part of life. No rocket science. Though an ability to understand/accept the cultural differences might help. The shihan will tell you when they consider you their student? As above. Several possibilities here....
Most megadans dont have such a relationship, they visit once or twice a year, for a couple of weeks max. They take 3 lessons per week with a shihan, so 12 lesson per year at the most. Who would call somebody who visits their dojo for 12 lessons, a student and is comfortable telling everybody that this guy is their student? They are not really students of the japanese shihan or of Hatsumi sensei even though they like to portray themselves as such. Often the shihan or Hatsumi sensei don't even know their names but call them by their country. Unless you live in japan and have a real 'personal' relationship with one of the shihan, that means they have contact with you outside of the dojo lessons, you talk to them on the phone or through letters and most importantly they say to you and others that you are their student, then maybe you are. In other cases you are a visiting dojo hopper and a way to make some money. Especially if you bring students with you ;-) To get such a relationship master - student relationship you need to be there, training reguraly, you need to show character, loyalty, an eagerness to learn and to really take in and practice what you have been shown. It takes time in japan and its best to chose one shihan to follow, as they don't mix very well. They have to see their movement in the way you move, if that happens then maybe one day they will call you their student or tell others that you are.
The "student of a grandmaster" is usually nothing more than a unique selling point. Try to look past it and see what your relationship with an instructor can offer you.
Having seen some of the videos on here by alleged 'deshi' I'm surprised we don't have a few of the Japanese on you tube, making definitive statements to the effect of; " I did not have 'shihan-ual' relations with that person!"
It's pretty obvious if you see the teacher in the student, that the student is learning from said teacher. However, the problem is when you don't see the characteristics an skills of the teacher in the movement of the student. So, the student can claim whatever they want, post pictures of them chumming it up with the teacher, show you their calligraphy or medal given them or claim that the teacher thinks the world of them and praises their taijutsu, but the bottom line is that if the moves aren't there, the rest is all window dressing. The test is if the teacher says this is my deshi, not my student(as there is a big difference) and this person represents me. Many people claim to be personal student's of the grandmaster, but really what does that mean? The Shihan were students of the grandmaster, now they are also licensed to pass on the transmission of the ryu, foreigners who claim any special relationship should also be able to show such credentials if anyone is to take them seriously. No matter what my rank, I am a personal student of my master, not soke. Just saying it because it's trendy without having any substance behind such a claim is like saying the you were being mentored by Steve Jobs just because you worked at Apple for a number of years. If someone is touted just because of the number of years they have done something and how close they are to the grandmaster, there should be more to show for it than half-arsed techniques and a "good heart" of a peaceful buyu. Any true relationship takes time, commitment, and trust to blossom, and it happens over years, not weeks, or days. Although the right martial artist can learn a lot in a day from the right teacher, that is very different from having that same day's worth of amazing learning again and again over a span of years.
Without trying to sound sarcastic or obtuse and in my own Opinion ... If you have to ask if you are a Deshi, you are not one. When asked who is your teacher, if you tell me more then one name, you do not have one. How do you become a Deshi? I think this sums it up perfectly..... 忍
So do you think it is possible to be a "deshi" of more than one shihan? Please bear in mind I am fully aware of my own situation , am just wonder what others peoples opinions are. Especially those outside Japan, andhow they view themselves.
Not really. Deshi implies a one teacher relationship, I believe. You could be a deshi of shihan x and train at the dojo of others though.... if shihan x was ok with that.
Now your just brown nosing...... It was actually a play on Clinton / lewinski's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" However epic fail, however hillariious , if you have to explain a joke you've failed . Bit like a bad taijutsu move, such as a double finger takedown pf a punch, or a big bend in at the waist knife defense ?
Each deshi relationship is unique. In the case of this art, I think the main aspect is the practice. If the master sees that the student has practiced diligently and dug deeply into what he has been shown, then that is a good start. One doesn't necessarily even have to live in the same country, as long as the practice is there and the connection remains. In the old days the master would come to visit for some time and then return to his own town and not see the student for several months (even years perhaps). A famous example would be the case of Kamiizumi Ise no Kami and his deshi Yagyu Muneyoshi. After a year of training in the Yagyu village, Kamiizumi left and Yagyu was alone to practice and hone his skills, until his master came back and checked his movement, corrected him, and then left again (to return a year later and give his deshi the Kage Mokuroku). The master gives out a seed, and if he sees that the student comes back some time later with a beautiful flower, that can mean more than having a student close nearby every day who needs correction and spoon feeding. People in the Bujinkan who are actual deshi to the shihan with menkyo kaiden are very, very few.
Interesting you should say that about the seed and the flower, note the 12:10 mark here. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FcRSPE2_JM"]Genbukan Ninpo na Discovery Channel - YouTube[/ame]
Great clip, with regards to "this knowledge is only known to grand masters.." Who made tanemura sensei a grand master? Genuine question btw.
Seems as though this and the last two topics topics have been wrapped up.. Can anyone think of another discussion point to start a new thread with? As Sato and Kirmura have come up, We know for sure Kimura trained with Takamatsu in person and a lot. But perhaps an idea for another thread is did Sato ever meet Takamatsu Sensei? Anyone have any ideas for a new thread? The last few have been fun and informative.
