JK, I can respect that, I honestly don't know how old our Tai Chi Chuan is (haven't asked yet) I know it is based on the 8 immortals with a long form and weapons forms for each immortal. Our master has mentioned before that our grandmaster was able to name almost 20 past grandmasters and I have seen a list of the last 10. So I am not saying that it is that many generations old, but it is usually traditional within our art to not have numerous grandmasters at one time.
Any chance of getting a segment on video online, or are there any clips up already? Also, would you say it resembles any of the 5 main family styles, or is it something else entirely?
Taijiman, I doubt I could get anything up online, being a temple style none of my brothers, sifus, or masters are interested in having it filmed. It may happen eventually if such is the case I would post it, however, my skill to perform our long form right now is VERY low. As for the family styles I have studied Yang long form, Chen short forms, Sun style (very little), Wu style (very, very little) and the 48 competition forms. This temple style (Shen Tao Tai Chi) is unlike any of them. While some of the posture names are similar (double push, part wild horses mane, hands like clouds) that is about where the similarities end. For example our hands like clouds is done forward and backward rather than left to right (similar to doing speed bag punches) with palms facing forward (yang) and backwards (yin). The biggest differences I have found within Shen Tao Tai Chi are: 1) The use of the 5 elements is heavily incorporated into every posture (i.e. metal punch/stance, earth punch/stance etc.) 2) The use of the trigrams are heavily emphasized as well. Some of our posture names come from what trigram you would be facing as the posture is performed. It is also not uncommon for our sifus to stop us and ask what trigram we are facing. 3) We hardly ever pick up the feet (ala Tai Chi stepping) our steps are done much more like Hsing I, or Ba gua where the feet slide. Our temple is located on mountain land so we will often go into the woods and practice our Tai Chi slide stepping over all types of terrain. 4) The martial applications within the form are very obvious, not like the family styles where some apps maybe "hidden" the strikes, locks, grabs etc are very apparent. We also practice numerous nerve, tendon and artery strikes. We do a lot of physical conditioning and bag work etc. 5) Our long form is a LONG form, right about 300 postures with a 3 hour completion time. This is only one of our 8 long forms based on the 8 immortals. Our breathing is also heavily emphasized into Shen Tao Tai Chi where, even by other teachers of the family styles it was never really taught. For me it has been Tai chi taken to an extreme. I have had to completely recondition my body on the physical level, just to manage to keep up. Even though, I did practice the other styles for about 2-3 hours 5 days a week with the family styles. **I am not saying this style is superior, but unique. I don't wish to get into any style vs. style debates, I just know I enjoy Shen Tao Tai Chi more than family styles**
Hi Taoquan, Your style sounds intriguing! 300 postures at a 3 hour completion time?! Blimey I'd be interested to hear more about it if your have the time. Thanks!
Don't wanna go too far :topic: But anyone interested PM me with questions and I will answer what I can
Thanks for the split, I will do my best to answer questions related to Shen Tao Tai chi, though I am still a beginner. (aren't we all?)
Hi, Is Shen Tao Taiji one of the 4 styles that predates Zhang Senfengs Wudang longfist Taiji? Han Gongyue - Can't find the style name Cheng Bi - Xiao Jiu Tian (Small Nine-Level Heavens) Xu Xuanping - San Shi Qi (Thirty Seven Postures) Li Daozhi - Xiantian Quan (Pre-birth Skills) Many thanks
OOOOOOOOOO, I honestly have no idea, that is a question I would have to pose to our master, maybe the grandmaster would know. I know a lot of our MA stem from mongolian arts, tibetan arts and from the red dragon temple that is/was on Wudang Mountain (I say was b/c I heard it was destroyed a century or two ago). I haven't even heard of the styles you speak of, do you know the principles behind them??? Our Shen Tao Tai Chi is heavily martial arts focused, but more based on the "old" Wudang military school idea. One of the older Wudang ideas was that MA was military based, but they not only learned MA for physical protection, but also spiritual protection. While Shen Tao Tai Chi is emphasized in physical MA, it keeps with that idea of developing a spiritual MA. So our main goal is to develop spiritually as well as martially. This is the reason at times when you see Taoist ceremonies (especially from Wudang) they incoporate martial mudras (sword fingers), Horse tail whip, Straight blade, as ways to "exorcise" or martially subdue spirits. They believed in order to work within the spiritual world one had to be physically strong, so there is a lot of Toughening etc. within our Tai Chi. I would be interested to hear more about the styles you mentioned above.
I'm don't I'm afraid, but I'm researching them as part of my Taiji training. I'll try to post some stuff on them later (I'm at work at the moment, having a little skive )
Fantastic, One of the names mentioned looks familiar, but honestly I would bet that I am wrong there I am working on getting a list from my master of our previous grandmasters. I know I have tried to do some research on one or two but found nothing, well the search continues.
No, Unfortunately not, to our knowledge we don't know any others that even practice it. The grandmaster lost many of his brothers during the vietnam war, he told our master to the best of his knowledge he is the last one practicing this style. Unfortunately as well we may lose many of the 8 immortal forms (we only have 1 1/2 of the bare hand forms) as our grandmaster has some health difficulties (from the war). We have what we call the intellectual fist (this is our current 300 posture long form that I described above) One of our Sifus has been studying with the grandmaster to learn the Ghost fist, in addition to these two there are: Shadow fist, Hidden fist and a few others that I cannot remember (8 total). I could always ask my master if they would be interested in posting any videos, but I am unsure he would agree to it. If he would I don't know if we would get any of my brothers or sisters to agree to be filmed then as well. I can try though I apologize as it seems a bit sketchy and admittedly I thought it did at first as well (see my family style b/g above). But it follows all of the main principles of Tai Chi Chuan, we read and use many of the same translated texts I studied in family styles. The main differences were described above, with the exception that we use a lot of physical conditioning etc. to achieve high level MA training. I was never taught that you had to do this within any of the family styles I practiced. I was taught that physical conditioning was a by product of Tai Chi, while I found this to be partially right, now with Shen Tao Tai Chi I find myself being "out of shape" for much of the physical demands within the form. For example, I thought my balance was good (I could easily do 1/2 hour to an hour of empty stance work w/o worry) However, when I was shown the Lotus Kick within Shen Tao Tai Chi, my balance was quite terrible. Our Lotus kick is different from the Yang family's Lotus kick in this way: -Yang family generally (as I was taught) is about 180 degree turn and kick with hip rotation being the source of your generated power. -Shen Tao Tai Chi Lotus Kick is a 360 degree turn on a single pivot leg, where you must maintain balance (center) to be able to perform the kick (it is a clearing kick if you are surrounded). We do this within the form by placing one leg out similar to other Tai Chi kicks. Then we proceed to rotate in a circle with the pivot foot. We train for power on this kick by repeatedly rotating around near a 75lb heavy bag. We train so that when we hit the bag it is hit with enough force to go through the bag while maintaining balace. Then you continue to circle to hit it again. As I mentioned many of the postures are very similar to family styles, but physical toughening is emphasized much more to completely execute the techniques (and by physical I don't mean ala "external/hard" styles). That is about the best I can do for now, sorry, I will see about being able to make a video.
