Shaolin Kung Fu vs Wing Chun

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Korpy, May 13, 2005.

  1. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    Before you read this.... This Is Not A Vs Style Thread.


    In a few years (2 or 3), I'll have the oppurtunity to take a style of Kung Fu.

    I can do either Shaolin Kung Fu or I can do Wing Chun.

    I don't know which one to do. I know about both... a little.

    But I don't know which one to do.
     
  2. wcrevdonner

    wcrevdonner Valued Member

    Whatever one you'd have the most fun with - since that will generally make you train harder.
     
  3. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    Where will you be learning Shaolin? Also what forms of shaolin will you be learning?

    I am partial to Shaolin. So my advice would be biast.

    Since Wing Chun came from Shaolin, Shaolin does use the same movements Wing Chun does, but there are also a large variety of other movements.

    Wing Chun is a system derived from someones favorite movements in traditional Shaolin Kung Fu. They took what they believed to be the most essential and effective moves and created a stystem out of them.

    Wing Chun is much easier to pick up as it is much more simple. But there is alot that it is missing when compared to a complete system of traditional Shaolin Kung fu.

    I studied Wing Chun for a while and the drills are very good. I still pull my wing chun training into play when I sparr.
     
  4. minimal

    minimal New Member

    I have recently advised someone who was going to take WC but had concerns, to take something else which had grappling, groundwork, kicking, and locks, such as Ju Jutsu.
    If the Shaolin you might be taking deals with these things then it would make your arsenal complete.
    It is my understanding that in Shaolin there is a preference for staying upright and staying free of clinch at most times so as to be freer in attacks and defense, and I understand it incorporates centerline theory and structure, balance, and concepts which are compatible with WC, so that could be a good combination.
    Spar and prepare.
     
  5. Topher

    Topher allo!

    I understand that Shaolin is based on animal movements and Wing Chun isn't.

    If your looking for self-defense do Wing Chun. I dont have any experiance in Shaolin so i cant comment there.
     
  6. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    The school says they teach a type of Shaolin Kung Fu called Chuan Fa.

    And the other school teaches Wing Chun.

    Both sound good to me. It would be hard to choose.
     
  7. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    I would probably go with the WC if Chuan Fa is the only system they teach at the Shaolin. If they cannot teach you Xiao Hong Quan then I would not consider it a very good Shaolin school.

    Pretty much anyone who teaches from a strong traditional Shaolin base will have the Hong system to share.

    The WC will most likely give you faster self defence skills, as it is more of an external style, Chuan Fa will teach you the ways of non resistance, more of an internal aspect from what I understand.

    I personally like WC, it does have some elements missing from it, but overall you will be able to fight pretty good (as a striker anyhow). You probably wont learn many throws, take downs, chin na, or grappling but you will build a strong foundation to build from.

    I think one of the strong points WC has is its upper body striking game, it is fast, effecient and to the point. Point being you can kill someone with WC fairly quickly if your fingers are conditioned properly and you have good speed and strength. Not saying that killing is the end all goal but it is a factor, this IS why martial arts were developed.

    I say go for the WC. But if you come across a school of Kung Fu that can teach you more than one Shaolin system I would most deffinately check that out.

    My Sifu teaches us several Shaolin styles at my school as well as Northern, and Souther fist styles, chin na, throws/takedowns, and some ground work (we could use more ground, but hey...) He does have a BB in Judo so I will probably ask to learn some of that in a few years. But what I really want to learn is some Chinese Dog boxing. I really like the ground game it offers and its pretty unique as everyone is obsessed with BJJ for grappling.
     
  8. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    I have another question.

    What's wrong with Chuan Fa Kung Fu?

    The Masters at the school are qualified in other arts, but only teach Chuan Fa.

    They are qualified in TKD, Karate, Kung Fu, BJJ, and Chuan Fa.

    This is also what the website says about their Chuan Fa Shaolin Kung Fu. (word by word)


    Our system, Chuan Fa Kung Fu, is a dynamic fighting art that employs punches, kicks, grappling, boxing, and joint locking. It incorporates the best of other arts such as Taekwondo, Karate, and Judo.

    You said Chuan Fa didn't have joint locking and stuff, but the website says their system does.
     
  9. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    Not to be rude, but respectufully read my post again, I said WC doesnt incorporate much of that.

    Chuan Fa does. Its just that the Chuan Fa can be tricky, since it is a combination with derivitives of arts such as kenpo, and other varius systems. If you do not have a good Chuan Fa teacher you can get ripped off.

    If you have a link to the school this would help. From what I have researched Chuan Fa does indeed sound good, but I have also come across some...shall we say, questionable Chuan Fa schools.

    If you have a link to the school post it and Ill tell you my personal opinion. Actually if you have a link to both schools post both links then a more accurate comparison can be made.

    Sorry for any confusion I may cause, I am not among the most elequent writers.
     
  10. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member

    Have dabbled with long fist and wing chun. My main MA is TKD, and my sifu said Id get more out of WC, as both long fist and TKD are a long range game. But..the clincher for me was my knees. Lots of horse riding stance lead to a patellar tendonitis, so looks like it'll be WC. My feel was that WC is simpler and quicker, but less complete -although I understand there are some 'lost' leg forms. Both will need ground work added probably. I have to say however that WC absolutely rocks. I love its simplicity. If you're good at it, I imagine it would help you cope in most encounters where you dont actually have to have a gun!
     
  11. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    Wing chun is pretty fun, plus nick is right. Not a bunch of low stances all the time. We are constantly in low stances in Shaolin styles. So if low stances bother you Shaolin is probabably will not make you happy.

    I like the low stances, but I am also obsessed with our Shaolin fist methods.

    If I were you Korpy, I would attend a sit in for each school. If they will let you participate in one class for free I would make use of it and see which suits you better.

    Thats what it really comes down to, what is best for you and your body, and your personal needs.

    Myself, I just wanted a very good and highly skilled master. And I found that, it just so happens he has a strong base in traditional nothern shaolin and tiger crane fist.
     
  12. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

  13. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    That school actually sounds pretty good. The man has a foundation in BJJ so you will definately get some good grappling in there. Plus the main instructor has much experience.

    Over all the material they teach seams pretty rounded, and would develope a strong fighter.

    They may veer more towards sport style combat, but you cannot be sure from just a website.

    I would check the school out if I were you. They seem respectable.
     
  14. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

  15. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    Well they both seem like good schools. I would be partial to the Shaolin. They have easily found information on the two masters of the school. The lead instructor has over 20 years of kung fu practice. And if thats traditional kung fu practice then she spent around 5-8 hours a day 5-6 days a week training.

    Wing Chun is easy to learn, does not require as much physical conditioning as a more traditional system as the Chuan Fa. Chuan Fa is somewhat of a newer style but it has retained much of the traditional aspects of Shaolin, the only difference is that it incorporates other styles into its system, which would probably make it a more complete system than the wing chun.

    It will take longer to master the Chuan Fa than the Wing Chun but if you actually develop a complete understanding of the Chuan Fa system, your arsenal will be much larger.

    As I stated before Wing Chun movements are based out of Shaolin. Shaolin HAS the same things Wing Chun has, but it has much more. This means that your focus will not be just on the simple movements wing chun favors, but you will have a broader spectrum to work with. This means much more time, and patience.

    The best thing to do would be to attend a sit in for each school, and then choose one, but above all else choose one that is best for you, choose the one that draws you the most.

    The one thing many beginning practitioners will forget is this:

    You can always change your style. Just dont take too long. If you join a school and after about 6 months you dont feel the system is giving you what you are looking for then leave.

    It is better to learn from a master that is not the best teacher then from a good teacher that is a horrible master. ~this is my personal belief.
     
  16. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    I'm more partial to Chuan Fa myself. I like the idea of a complete system of Kung Fu, especially Shaolin, cause of my beliefs.

    Also cause it is Kung Fu.

    PS: I know this has nothing to do with the schools, is Wushu Kung Fu, or is Wushu a totally different martial art?
     
  17. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    As pointed out already people are going to be biased in their advice, I am just as guilty.

    Wing Chun will teach you how to fight, in a relatively short space of time. Whilst you may spend the rest of your life refining the skills, as I understand it, it is quite feasible to learn the entire system within four years. I think that Shaolin techniques are probably more complex and would take longer before you could apply them in "street" situations.

    Although I've never trained in Shoalin I have no doubt that it would probably make you a lot more supple and develop strength throughout your body. Whilst Wing Chun training will keep you fit, it is very economical and you will only develop the specific muscles for hitting, blocking and maintaining a stable stance, and you are only going to gain in suppleness around your shoulders and arms. It falls down aesthetically as well, Wing Chun is just not pretty fighting, and wouldn't hack it in Hollywood. There probably isn't as much emphasis on stamina as there is in Shaolin (although the different Wing Chun classes that I've attended have always left even their fittest students breathless) as the whole aim of Wing Chun is to end the fight within a few seconds of it starting. No dancing around your opponent, just straight in there before they have time to think.

    :)
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2005
  18. Korpy

    Korpy Whatever Works

    Thank you. :)
     
  19. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    Wu Shu can be translated as such Wu - Martial // Shu - Play/or art

    Wu Su can be translated as such Wu - martial // Su - technique

    What is commonly refered to as Wushu is a modernised rendition of martial movements arranged in an acrobatic manner that closely resembles the martial arts. It is based in actual combat but has been drawn to a more "for show" fashion.

    Wushu does mean martial art in a sense, in classical china (depending on area) wushu was the term used to describe the martial arts.

    With todays modern society it is more commonly excepted as the martially influenced acrobatic eye pleasing routines.

    here is how my teacher describes it:

    Wushu

    Wushu is the Chinese word for martial arts. At the Chinese Kung Fu Association we have chosen to use the more familiar term Kung Fu. People more used to the word Kung Fu but Wushu is the more accurate word. Wushu includes all forms of of Chinese martial arts including Taijiquan, Wing Chun, Praying Mantis, Hung Gar, Ba Gua, Eagle Claw and so on. Most of these arts contain traditional weapons and these are also included.

    Modern Wushu

    Modern wushu is a dynamic performance and competition sport grounded in traditional Chinese martial arts. The cultural and combative tradition of wushu is retained as an integral element while the art and the sport of wushu is expressed physically and mentally. Wushu reigns as the most popular sport in China, and now is being considered for the Olympic games. In wushu, every movement must exhibit realistic combative application and aestheticism even thought its emphasis has shifted from combat to performance. Routines are performed solo, paired, or in groups, either barehanded or with traditional Chinese weaponry. In short, wushu is the most exciting martial arts to be seen, felt, and ultimately, practiced.


    I tend to be drawn to Shaolin partially due to my beliefs as well. Plus my Sifu is very very skilled, yet is cheaper than everyone else. He is not in it for the money. He is a very humble and respecable man with good morals and virtue. He was raised in a Buddhist temple in cambodia, and very much retains that quality. Of course he has adapted to american culture, as thats where we are. The quality of your teachers morality will determine the level of kung fu they will reach, I am drawn to my teacher because he has no racial descrimination, nor is he biast, he respects all other martial arts and people. This I respect very much.
     
  20. PangQuan

    PangQuan New Member

    Oh, you should check and see if either of these schools teach weapons. As with my teacher we learn all of the traditional Chinese weapons, from broad sword, to rope dart.

    The weapons are very fun. When you eventually decide to move onto an actual blade for solo practice at home you will be surprised at how much your consentration will be tested, and improved.
     

Share This Page