Serious differences between CACC and BJJ...

Discussion in 'Wrestling' started by Combat Sports, May 14, 2016.

  1. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Participation in High School Folkstyle wrestling, is still Catch. Any serious Catch guy will tell you that Folkstyle is Catch minus submissions.

    He trained some Judo, and then didn't train any BJJ at all. And he makes it clear that he doesn't practice anything but Catch.

    I am inclined to go with Josh's assessment.

    And for the record, you started the denigrating talk when you said "It's a silly argument". I haven't questioned your reading abilities, but you just went on commenting in a manner that lead me to the conclusion that you didn't even read my article.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  2. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Suzuki or Sakuraba in their heyday didn't fight anything like Barnett. They fought in perpetual motion using positional control as a launchpad for sub attacks (regardless of their opponent's guard) and relying on wrestling their way back to the top if they missed them. Josh, on the other hand, prioritises passing and wearing his opposition down from heavy top control. Which of these fighters does Josh's strategic approach (in this and other fights) remind you of more, and which one looks more like Lister?
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-xH4Fms4bc"]Pancrase: Frank Shamrock vs Allan Goes (1995) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  3. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Some of what you are talking about comes from size differences. Sakuraba was often smaller then his opponents so wrestling heavy on them would not be the best strategy.
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    There is no such thing as "pure catch" - in fact there is virtually no standard outside of the ruleset....it's akin to saying "pure MMA fighter"
     
  5. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Of the catch wrestlers in MMA's early days, which one of them adopted this heavy top-control and guard passing strategy that now apparently characterises the style?
     
  6. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    While I agree that there is some crossover in all of the grappling arts, I think comparing it to "Pure MMA Fighter" is a stretch.

    Again, I am inclined to go with Josh's own assessment of his focus instead of the speculation of other people. I don't really see why he would be inclined to lie about it.
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Josh said he had never done BJJ...that isn't the same thing as being pure Catch
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f9rk8SM8Rdo[/ame]

    Josh catagories bjj with only gi training.
    so in his view, training groundwork (mostly nogi), under a bjj black belt, gaining a bjj black belt, and competing in a gi at black belt. Doesn't mean hes done BJJ.

    Or its just marketing schtik, to get match ups like metamoris, and make people talk about him online.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    https://youtu.be/2lNJgJoyCDQ

    Billy Robinson teaching Josh.

    In the video, it shows the Catch "version" of the double wrist lock, which I worked on this week and it hurt like Hell.
    BJJ (more well known) version, you kimura from side control and then step over the head. Catch version, you simply place the knee on the head and rest. This stretches out the neck and shoulder, making the double wrist seem easier. However when youre in that position, doesnt really matter as long as the end result is the same.

    11min in, those from last year's MAP meet would recognise that position I demo'd. But with a different finish. I did a crucifix pin which would win me a freestyle comp, Catch turned it into a shoulder/elbow lock.
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    When I first trained with Harry it was a real eye opener for Singh and I because so many little things made a huge difference.

    Singh credits a lot of his recent BJJ improvements to Catch nuances I have shown him
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30Ujz5sCS3k[/ame]

    The best wrestler in mma is definitely Ben Askren.

    Afaik hes never claimed cacc though.
     
  13. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

  14. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Catch wrestling - submissions + 60 years of development = scholastic/folkstyle wrestling.
     

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