Serious differences between CACC and BJJ...

Discussion in 'Wrestling' started by Combat Sports, May 14, 2016.

  1. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I have been talking to people who do CACC and asking them to define what the differences between BJJ and CACC are. A lot of them describe it as an "attitude" though there is certainly more to it then that. When Barnett submitted Lister the Gracies were of course quick to bring out damage control videos to try and maintain that somehow BJJ was still superior. This analysis however does an excellent job of breaking down the match and the various ways that Josh was using wrestling and not BJJ.

  2. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    That was wicked. Thank you for sharing it.
  3. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    What is CACC? :confused:
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

  5. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    While that was an excellent breakdown of an fantastic match Id say it's overstating some of the technical and strategic differences between catch as catch can and Brazilian jujitsu (although there are differences).

    I've never trained catch but with the exception of the cradle, toe control and some of the compressing attacks I use all of those strategies in BJJ especially the leg pin (as it essentially puts me in half guard top) and knee ride (obviously) to the inside thigh, especially used to facilitate passing by killing the inside leg. I also prefer to attack from the top control when in turtle top rather than hunt for the back specifically, as do quite a few guys where I train.

    You know, I think submission grappling (outside of sport specific rulesets) is more universal than it is style specific and although strategic differences exist the more styles are exposed to each other the more blurred even those distinctions become. Even barnett can't claim to be a catch only player although he may have a heavy flavour to his game.

    One thing I can't stand is BJJ pureism though so it's good to see someone reminding those guys that there's more to grappling than IBJJF sport grappling, and metamoris OS a great venue to demonstrate a more open styless grappling approach (ironically).
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    The hipster at 7:20 :D

    Exactly what Knee Rider said.
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    First time I saw a serious top heavy grappling game it was from Sperry and the btt guys, Carlson's guys played exactly that type of top heavy wrestling type game.

    First time I experienced that type of shoulder pressure in side control and pain rides like the knee on face it was from Matt Thornton (he actually put Karl tanswell to sleep from pressure in side control) and I believe they called those types of pain rides pulmissions half was between a submission and a position.

    First time I saw compressions from kesi and from side control with the leg up was in judo.

    Point being there are different types of games different people play, it's all grappling and nothing is really unique.

    And Josh is a seriously good grappler one of the best of his generation
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I think that video demonstrates how much of a beast Josh Barnett is, rather than any kind of style superiority
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Sounds like you went to the same seminars as me! :)
    I can remember being under "pomissions" at SBG in manchester being taught by Tom Oberhue.
  10. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Yep I remember toms seminar, Karl brought Matt over a few times back then and they were always great places to learn ,
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ground Positional Game (foundation BJJ focus) plus Limb Control (the original CACC Focus) Plus Takedowns (Wrestling / Judo Focus) makes for a hell of a fighter.

    Thats why Garry Tonon is so successful -

    [ame=""]Garry Tonon BJJ Highlight 2016: Lion Killer - YouTube[/ame]
  12. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    This is from the description of the video, and the reasons why the fellow made it.

    My Judo instructor tends to say that "It's all the same stuff". (edited... he uses a different word then stuff). But the controls and the constant pressure is a wrestling fundamental that I don't generally see applied in BJJ. I see this more as I watch my kids step into BJJ coming from wrestling.

    There are some other differences that you see more in defense then you would in this match as Josh was basically the attacker through the whole match.

    In this analysis of Sakuraba, they talk a bit about how different Sakuraba's approach was. Particularly when it comes to being willing to give up the back.

  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Last edited: May 14, 2016
  14. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Problem you have is lister was a high school wrestler and a national sambo champ before he did bjj, so it's a bit of a silly argument because he isn't a pure bjj guy just as Barnett isn't a pure catch guy

    They are both simply very well rounded grapplers
  15. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Barnett would argue that he is a pure catch guy, for the record. I don't think it's a "silly argument".
  16. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    He can call himself what ever he wants his main coach is Eric who isn't pure anything

    And neither is Josh really this is a good.breakdown of the fight and both guys backgrounds
  17. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

  18. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    Again... (particularly since I doubt you actually took the time to read the article...)

  19. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Ok smart ass since you want to throw silly comments around and question people's reading abilities where did I mention anywhere about Barnett being a bjj anything, please quote it profanity removed I said he wasn't a pure catch guy and seeing as he wrestled first, then did judo then trained in hybrid csw with a bjj blackbelt it's hard to call him pure catch isn't it?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2016
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    icefield, you've been here long enough to know the rules regarding swearing.

    Leave it out please.

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