my idea about Women/girls SD well i hav talked to lots of girls/women during last 3 months this is wat i found 1. first thing they think No One will attack them or Why the hell one will attack on them?? 2. how could he(partner/relative/freind) do this? 3. i don't need SD, i m not a victim(bit of confidence) 4. i don't go out often so i don't need one(SD) 5. awareness is being paranoid. 6. BullSh!t 7. (@#&*(@#$ others u don't want to listen , seriously after talking/fighting to some of female MAist(rare commodity) i concluded 1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary 2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above 3. those who takes MA seriously(even a bit) hit f*ckin hard 4. all of them hit above belt n none of them ever tried awareness thingies 5. even then my list above applies to them too 6. confidence?? wat the heck is that? i hav more but rite now i m very tired -TkdWarrior-
TkdWarrior, Could you please explain the following statements that you made a little better. "1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary" "2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above"
Tkdwarrior, Hate to say this buddy, but I think you r in trouble, wish u luck buddy, n tread carefully....... |Cain|
"1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary" "2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above" sure Lady, i can explain if u don't get fumed till u finish reading n understanding what i m saying...first i'll tell u why i come to this conclusion then u'll be with me.. this is wat i call pschological n environmental conditioning, which directly creates the Unique Distinction b/w males n females in Humans(u'll notice this doesn't happen in Animals) in only Human Species we hav created those distinction, like Male hunt, women stay at home/cave, male is stronger n female is weaker, male is Yang n female is yang n this is 1000's years of conditioning which we hav created on our pschological mind, in a sense we hav went totally against nature... just watch in Lions, lioness is fiercer one not Lions, She can take more than one lion at a time. same goes for other female species on earth, none of them hav this sort of conditioning. they all depends upon Emotional Content(not from Bruce's movie) they all share the Bonding in relationships but still follow the nature nuff said -TkdWarrior-
Lemme tell ya TKD Warrior, the females on this site are definitely 'extra ordinary', and definitely not the average. Be afraid........be very afraid
well guys watever i said is based on my findings not by any second hand source... so i know wat i m talking about... n i mean no disrespect towards Female community... anyways i'll thank LadyHawk for not flaming me on that part i hav talked to girls/females after having lots of unfortunate incidents in this part of India... things r not easy... that's why i always say MA doesn't necessarily means SD. -TkdWarrior-
OK, let me start off be saying that regardless of whether I agree or disagree I make every effort to respect other people's opinions. Anger is counter productive in the goal of learning. This is why I asked you to explain your statements further so I wouldn't mis-interpret them and could respond intelligently. I agree in regards to conditioning. Male and females alike are conditioned from birth. Our upbringing, lifestyle, environment and "culture" are key elements in creating our personal being. Traditionally men were brought up to be aggresive protectors and the females to be passive and nurturing. The key elements that I mentioned above often change with time and it's a whole new ball game. Of course there are some people with their heads in the sand that think nothing bad will ever happen to them but often "Once biten, twice shy" and they learn to recondition. Once the fear factor triggers the survival instinct followed by a heafty dose of adrenaline the results can be amazing. I agree that males have the advantage of strength over females but I disagree with your statement. "1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary" Now, with that said, a female martial artist is "NOT" your average female. I have sparred with many skilled male martial artists both in training and in competition. I have won some and have lost some. I have also successfully defended myself in aggresive confrontations against a male. So, I disagree with the statement "2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above" My martial arts training includes self defense training and I believe that you can not train the average female in self defense the same as a martial artist trains.
<but I disagree with your statement. "1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary"> ok i said this in very much general terms but anyways i m talking about normal females(those who don't hav any training) even then i won't change my words i used extra ordinary just as an exceptional case... while talking about adernaline dump/pump it works both ways so i don't talk about those cases <I have sparred with many skilled male martial artists both in training and in competition. I have won some and have lost some. I have also successfully defended myself in aggresive confrontations against a male.> i m really happy if someone can use their training(regardless of their age/sex) <So, I disagree with the statement "2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above"> well i should hav said that an avg trained female MAist but i don't want to troll so i'll stick to my points... well an average Female(MA) does MA for reasons 1. SD 2. stamina, fitness etc etc... 3. trophies, recognition etc. most of times it's the later 2 which i hav seen n they r not up to that mark... i know one girl(out of some 40-50 MAist girls) only here who seriously can kick some serious aS$ i used to train with her n frankly i luved training with her than any other so tuff guys in my class because she was small looking girl(about 40 something kgs) who was fighter from the core of heart, she was tuff fight... and i hav seen average person not putting enuff with MA training so they ended up becoming half a$$ fighters, n i won't bet on them in SD situations again i want to say that i m putting down female MAist but this is wat i hav seen n observed <My martial arts training includes self defense training and I believe that you can not train the average female in self defense the same as a martial artist trains> i believe half of it, because MA gives perception about fighting training n i believe that MA female will train MUCH better than average female BUT Self Defense is wat i don't talk it's all about figthing, it's about smartness, awareness, attitude n will n this goes for females n males both... i'll tell u one story here happened in delhi ...there was a girl whose driver tried to rape her but she fooled her, first by kissing him back saiying that she luves him will marry him n then run away with money n jewellery etc etc in all this mean time she switched on the mobile n her dad n brother over heard all this n tracked him down n saved her. (it was in papers) this incident narrates about Awareness/smartness Self Defense there has been lots of situations like that...she never had any SD training... thats wat i call extra ordinary... -TkdWarrior-
OK, I respect your opinion but I still disagree about your generalization of women and the fact that you used the word "never" in regards to a female's skills and abilities in defending against a male. Since you are using your personal experience with the women in your country as evidence to back your statements I have no grounds for debate since I am not familiar with your lifestyle and culture. I think we can agree to disagree.
<the fact that you used the word "never" in regards to a female's skills and abilities in defending against a male.> i think the problems is the word "Never" is programmed in our heads in last 1000's of yrs of human evolution. well it's true that i m using my country as my evidence but in other countries(from wat i hav heard, listened, watched) things r not MUCH differences... i'll say again(this time bit changed) for 1st point. i do think "Never" is not right word... <females hav less % chance of winning than their male counterparts> -TkdWarrior-
I don't know if you teach but if you do I would suggest that you don't share that opinion with your female students.
I have to disagree with your comments about women. From what you are saying because a woman is smaller and weaker she will always loose. So the same thing goes for a smaller weaker man, taking on a bigger stronger male, he to will loose, always. Therefore the whole concept of martial arts is flawed, that if your are not the biggest, you will always loose. So why bother training, because unless you are the biggest you will NEVER win. This certianly isn't true. Women should be treated no different to men. Women are also just as good at fighting men. Again comparing like for like. A 10 stone average women and a 10 stone average male, both with the same time of training/style will give each other a fair fight. However women often take on bigger attackers, so they have to fight harder and smarter, just like a smaller male would. Sex is not an issue and never should be. Evolution has lead us to think of what people think should be, rather than thinking of the evolution into what could be. If the women you know don't fight as hard and well as the men of equal standing, that's becuase they lead to believe they cannot, which is a shame.
He did admit that the word "never" was the wrong word. I do not believe that sex is the determining factor in a fight. Although I beleive that sex is a factor. Because of our hormonal differences men ARE naturally stronger AND naturally more aggressive. This is do to the higher levels of testosterone in the human male. This difference does put women at a disadvantage(even if all other things are equall). This of coarse does not mean that a woman could not possibly beat a man, but it would be foolish for a woman to NOT take these differences into consideration when training or if attacked. I do believe that both sexes are equall. Although they are NOT identical. Robert
LH->I don't know if you teach but if you do I would suggest that you don't share that opinion with your female students. SB->If the women you know don't fight as hard and well as the men of equal standing, that's becuase they lead to believe they cannot, which is a shame. well i actually don't teach officially as i m not qualified(not enuff belt credits) but i hav trained with couple of them... i use my results of survey/interviews to tell them how much they need to improve/work on their things. i know it's not the best way but this is the things which they may face, so i tends to find hard way out. n this always provoked them to do best dunno why?? may be girls r more competitive than guys, i seriously dont know... so i like "put up the stats n prove them wrong" SBob i agree with my stats Martial arts r useless(or somehow i proved) according to police records(know some policemen) it's the smaller guy who cause more troubles why? because they know they r screwed if they don't give more than 100%. there is not any psychological advantage they hav.(mmm u said that already) even MA stats tells u that BB got suckered up in streets stats says a street fighter will easy kick a good MAist... police records tells u that most fights go to ground. that's because their reality doesn't go to street...n that happens in every second SD class in one of women SD class they r teaching complicated judo throwing...guess how many girls/women will master those judo techniques to save themselves when judo BB hav problems putting them on??? if ur SD classes teaches the first way to wrestle then u r stepping up to loose first up(because wrestling/grappling techniques don't work unless u hav perfected/close_ to them till then u match it with ur strength) SD as i said is more about WILL, ATTITUDE, etc etc...but NOT about technqiues... thats why if u see my first post i hav talked about all these things in my other post(which i got frm a female TKDist) talked about lot of these things. if u want i'll explain every other point of mine, i hav no problems with explaining as i told u it's me writing not taken from somebody's work...i hate to say those things but i hav one sis n some freinds who i luv too much to care about...my sis can stand on her any bloody day... so some of my freinds... anyways if FreeForm needs any advice then he should talk to Dr. Ruthless(ruthless.com??) i m no Expert but she is... and thank u all for being patience with me... -TkdWarrior-
Eh? Good points Tkd and Ladyhawk, nice discussion going on in here Well, first of all, I can't say wether a MA female will beat a MA male, since I hv less experience of sparring with females, I had at first gone easy on them but got whacked up a few times in the face, not a pleaseant experience, lemme tell ya, MA females are definitely extraordinary But I sure can say that an average female has a lesser chance on an average male Now b'fore you get fumed, I would like to point out these - I won't say that this average female is weaker than the average male But rather that the average male is naturally more aggressive than the average female....... I mean absolutely no disrespect to the fairer sex, I put the main text in bold to make sure you understand my points. Just my 2 cents, please don't hurt me |Cain|
Well generally women are less agressive than men (a very good quality too) due to the competetive side of males. Females are much more agreeable. But like I said if you take a man and a woman, of similar weight, size and training, they will give each other a fair fight. Most of the women at a club are usually smaller, less physically fit or trained for less time. Or the instructor thinks it's only a women and teaches the men the good practical stuff or gives them more focus (not that I'm saying they would do that of course). But if you put a bigger man against this women then she will struggle, just like her male counter part would of the same build, size and training. I's not a question of sex or natural instincts, it's a question of physical dimensions and training. Is a 67 grandmaster, who's frail and weak with age still a good fighter and capable of looking after himself. Yes probably. Why because of his training. Yet a woman can't. Why? because we tell her she can't. I've sparred with some very tough thai/kickboxing/grappling women before and they are very good fighters. Plus they often give away a few stone to me. Now if I were two stone lighter would I still have won? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Calm down everybody I'm sure this disscussion will be carried on in the future, probably in a thread by TKDwarrior ebtitled 'Why men are better than women' or Ladyhawks 'Why all men are inferior scum' Only kidding please don't hurt me! How do most of you broach the subject of rape attacks? Its quite a disturbing thing for most people to talk about, let alone allow somebody you barely know 'simulate' in a controlled environment. I was recently showing some women some escapes from prone, where an attackers in a kneeling stradle and trying to strangle them. Without ever touching the subject I taught them some of the principles that could help if it was indeed a rape attempt, afterwards when I pointed this out they were stunned that they didn't think of it before. Has anybody got any comments on this type of training, disguising the end point to make people more comfortable. Colin
Rape defences and training... two words 'groundwork randori'. Ground fighting shows how 'panicy' a person gets when they're in a compromised position and being attacked. A real eye opener when you have a person defending for the first time.
I have been asked this weekend by owner of the TKD school I attend (and teach cardio kickbox at) ... that he would like to offer some SD classes (time wise as you described)...and whether I would be interested in teaching also. I've taken several SD workshops in the past focusing on many different aspects. These are some suggestions I thought should be covered....(taking into consideration all the prior posts here also!) AWARENESS and AVOIDANCE Being aware of your surroundings and being "switched on" is the most important factor of your personal safety. Learn easy to understand techniques of awareness & avoidance. BODY LANGUAGE Looking at how people stand, use their hands, and even gestures, can tell you alot about a person's intentions. Recognise these signs so you can be one step ahead. VOICE CONTROL The power of the voice is widely overlooked when being taught self-defence. Yet this technique can have the same effect as striking someone. FEAR How not to misunderstand your fear and it's mental and physical characteristics. Learn how to utilise your fear and that adrenaline rush. EFFECTIVE STRIKES How to generate maximum power in your strikes to stop an attacker GROUND DEFENSE Simple but effective techniques to help you get back up when attacked and brought to the ground. EVERYDAY ITEMS AS WEAPONS By law we cannot carry items that are specifically designed to injure. However you can use everday items such as, magazines, hairbrushes, pens, credit cards etc. to help you protect yourself. THE LAW & SELF DEFENCE Advice on the law and some of it's implications when concerning self defence KNIFE AWARENESS Basic advice can prevent you from a serious injury or worse What do you think? Also when sitting in on a SD class given at our community center. I noticed that many of the women (50 or so in attendance) although very eager and willing to learn the defense techniques .... were physically "unfit", huffing and puffing within minutes!. I am suggesting a good warm up and strength conditioning exercises also be done.
