sayoc kali seminar

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by mick shore, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. mick shore

    mick shore Valued Member

    Tuhon Tom Kier held a brilliant seminar at the weekend in warwick covering all the different aspects of sayoc kali,mass attack scenarios as well as handling a fight when out with family members was covered as well as power striking for the street .Being a sayoc seminar ,knife work was also covered in depth,with various empty hand and knife to knife applications explained ,a lot of the material shown hadnt been seen before and opened up our eyes to stuff we hadnt thought of.It was good to meet up with other guys from around europe and the uk and to see the systemn growing with more new groups attending.A good meal and a couple of drinks afterwards rounded off a good weekend,Thanks to Tuhon Tom Kier and Guro Krishna Godhania and his wife Deepa for putting on this seminar and we look foward to tuhons return next year-:) -Sayoc kali Doncaster
     
  2. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Hi Mick,

    How much did the seminar cost to attend as I've been informed by various people that have attended Sayoc seminars in the past that they cost a lot to attend?

    LB
     
  3. mick shore

    mick shore Valued Member

    Hi ,The cost was £100 for two days 5 hours a day not including lunch break,plenty of indepth tuition from one of the best in edged weapons with plenty of support from other sayoc instructors who were there as well.Tom kier is well worth the fee and cant reccommend him highly enough plus as a side note his humour when teaching is brilliant and makes you feel at ease-mick
     
  4. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Hi Mick,

    The only concern I have with Mick and other Sayoc Instructors (Tuhon Chris Sayoc) is their size. I was speaking recently to a FMA instructor who has had over 25 years experience in FMA who said that Sayoc wouldn't work for him because he is alot smaller that Mike and Chris and alot of what he has seen of Sayoc is based on strength rather than technique.

    LB
     
  5. tonglonglengjai

    tonglonglengjai Valued Member

    I have the same concerns as many about Sayoc...but mick is not a large guy by anyones standard...and i respect his judgement.

    Paul
    www.moifa.co.uk
     
  6. Bambi

    Bambi Valued Member

    Whoever this unnamed instructor is they are hilariously wrong on the matter.
     
  7. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Bambi,

    They could be as I don't know as I have never done Sayoc. But i have met people that have done Sayoc who have told me it's nothing special. What they told was to study the knife techniques from another more established FMA Style then buy an anatomy book.

    LB
     
  8. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Does Sayoc Kali teach unarmed vs knife or only knife vs knife? Also, is there single (with or without knife/weaponary) defender vs multiple opponents(with or without knife/weaponary)?

    In the UK carrying a weapon incurs a serious prison sentence (and criminal record to boot). Hence, I question the purpose of learning the purpose of learning knife systems if you must be armed with one in the 1st place, other than for basic practise and appreciation. Knife defense is slowly begining to become something of a reality in the UK, but for the time being at least, you cannot be edged weapon armed yourself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  9. Marcie

    Marcie Valued Member

    Before criticising any system either directly or from hearsay I would advocate experiencing it first hand before doing so :) - at least then if you decide to do so on a public forum it is your belief and no one elses'

    I think the Sayoc system being described as 'nothing special' and 'buy an anatomy book' is a really flippant remark and not constructive at all

    When Guro Krishna first bought Sayoc Kali to the UK I trained on the very early seminars - was even lucky enough to train 'one to one' for some time with Tuhon Chris Sayoc during one seminar - these seminars were really something.

    The system is quite unique and a real eye opener. Sayoc Kali does NOT rely on strength and power - Tuhon Chris has amazing sensitivity and skill.

    Cost? I imagine the Sayoc Guys flew over from the states? As far as I know air travel is still not free?
     
  10. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Marcie,

    I totally agree with what you say. But I do know one person that has left Guro Krishna but I don't know the reason why he left, when I see him again I will ask him. There is a member on this board who used to be under Guro Krishna but left. Maybe he can shed some light on Sayoc.

    The person who said "nothing special' and 'buy an anatomy book" went on a Sayoc seminar and wasn't impressed at all. The person doing the seminar i forgot his name was showing techniques that haven't actually been used in a real knife fight.

    LB
     
  11. Bambi

    Bambi Valued Member


    I've met people who told me that lord bathmat likes to troll. Of course, I don't know if that's true or not.

    See what I did there? :thinking:
     
  12. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Bambi,

    I don't like to troll. All i like is the truth. As I have said I have never studied Sayoc but I have met people who have, who don't rate it as highly as alot of people. Does that mean it's bad? No. Just that some people like it and some people don't.

    LB
     
  13. Airyu

    Airyu Valued Member

    Hello Everyone,

    Interesting thoughts put out here. My recommendation is to always and I do mean always,train with whomever is coming in to the area. Be open to new ideas and methods and one of the best methods to do so is to attend seminars. I have had the greatest opportunities to meet and train with Tuhon Kier, Pamana Tuhon Sayoc, Manong Inosanto, GM Nene Tortal, Master Remy Presas, Soke Hatsumi, Tony Cecchine, Caesar Gracie......this list goes on and on. I plan on the cost and I attend! With each of these opportunities I have gained another view on what exists out there in the martial arts and what I want to be able to train more in. As someone much wiser than I wrote "you must first empty your cup to taste my cup of tea."

    This holds true here as well as all endeavors of life.

    Gumagalang
    Guro Steve L.

    www.Bujinkandojo.net
     
  14. Lord Bathmat

    Lord Bathmat Valued Member

    Guro Steve L.,

    I have issue with what you have said. In a street situation what will come out Sayoc Kali, Ninjitsu, Modern Arnis, BJJ etc etc.

    At a seminar i went to I met a guy that had done various martial arts from MMA, JKD, Doce Pares Escrima, Silat and Wrestling and i asked him the question in a street situation what will come out. His answer I don't know.

    IMHO I have no issue with cross training but I believe you should cross train styles that fit together and don't have different styles that have different ideas on defense and attack.

    LB
     
  15. embra

    embra Valued Member

    LB is right on target with this one regarding cross training. IMHO, you have to understand what you can get out of any system. All systems have strong and weak points.

    How effectively you can usefully assemble principles from one with another one is largely the individual's responsibility. Hence, you should ask sensible questions of your teachers and of any given system - to see a) what the core of the system is and whether it offers you and your goals something usefull. To do this you have to also drink from the cup i.e. go with the flow, and you may find something usefull that you hadnt thought about before.

    We live in a world where many MA systmems are tacked together somehow, sometimes usefully, sometimes not so. To my outlook, the most important goal in cross-training is meaningfully combining the efforts. Looking too much for 'styles to fit together', I dont believe to be easily obtainable, but you can find eleemnts from one that can help you in another.
     
  16. Airyu

    Airyu Valued Member

    Hello Guys,

    Yes the conundrum of too much information. Having been in several altercations, I have not stopped to think about what technique to utilize from which system I have studied, I just utilized what reflexively has been trained through hard ass pounding training.

    The problem with many composite systems is just that, they do not pressure test what they are learning in a stress filled, hard hitting session, multiple times with multiple people. So a point to consider here is the training you employ to integrate what you have gleaned in training.

    How do you guys take your practice sessions home and integrate it into your particular systems?

    Gumagalang
    Guro Steve L.
     
  17. embra

    embra Valued Member

    One of the reasons for getting interested in FMA was weaponry. For my taste, too much of FMA knife defense is knife vs knife or double knife vs knife, and not unarmed vs single/double knife.

    In TaiChiChuan, I found basic San Shou boxing drills, a usefull exercise to counter a hooking outside knife slash, followed by an opposite arm lower 2nd knife thrust. The TCC folk I train with are very good at unbalancing and blending, but know nothing of the danger of knives, so this took some working on, but did bear some fruit - in training - I am not planning on testing this out for real any time soon!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  18. mick shore

    mick shore Valued Member

    little big man

    Hi Lb Im sure you have me mistaken with someone else as at my heaviest im about 155lbs and compete at less, so im no big guy,Tuhon Sayocs skill is something else and his sensitivity in knife drills has to be seen and felt,no force whatsoever.As a bjj instructor where leverage over strength is all important ,I dont entertain systemns where force or strength is a requirement.Sayoc Kali has a multitude of empty hand versus knife as well as pure empty hand methods including multiple opponent scenarios for those that think it just entails knife vs knife.Some like it some dont-everybody is entitled to their opinion,but dont take anybody elses word try it yourself first.Paul if you want a free lesson pop down from newcastle ,ive also extended this offer to bill lowery in the past and Lb if youre in the area pop in for a free class -mick
     
  19. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    LB I can see why people would get the impression that your trolling, the style of your posting does you no favours.

    HE said, in HIS opinion, HE thinks, A freind of mine knows, I know some one who, etc etc.

    But yet you never seem to say in YOUR opinion, based on YOUR expeariance. It's makes it look like you have an opinion you dont want to own up to if you get what I mean.

    People like things for different reasons and as the old saying goes, one mans food is another mans garbage.

    Just because one person does not like a particular system or holds no value to it does not mean that the system in question is not valid or has no value it simply means that it is not suited to that particular person and if you really want to know the true value of something for yourself you have to go do it yourself as everyone else's opinion is just that, an opinion based on their own personal likes and dislikes.

    Now you go on to mention that you know this guy that has left Guro Krishna for what ever reason and then go on to say that another person who is a member here on MAP has also left and can some how shed light on why some people have left Krishna as if to insinuate that there is some terrible reason for this? This is simply gossip spreading.

    People leave instructors for a whole manner of reasons and not simply because there is something wrong with the instructor. They may well discover that their is another system or style of MA that is more suited to them, They may have only taken it up as a hobby and no longer wish to participate in that hobby, they may move, they may have a family and other commitments that prevent them carrying on, the list is endless.

    And yes it is true they may not even like the instructor anymore, but that does not mean the instructor is any less in value and does not hold any valuable knowledge does it, It simply means that for that person they instructor or system is no longer suited to them as an individual.

    I have seen students come and go from my group over the years for a whole host of reasons, even recently I had a couple of them leave because, and I quote 'It is too hard to learn and teach'????? I have been call too hard core, too tough but yet I teach a fighting art?

    I have had people dissapointed because they came to me to become sport champions and even though I have done well in the sport and had many champions in my organisation I dont teach the sport.

    I have had people beleive what I teach is based on sport only to be surprised when I teach the art.

    And when you say too expensive, expensive compared to what would be my answer. If it was £1 and you put no value in what some one has to show you then it is too expensive, yet if it was £1000 and they gave you information you beleived money could not buy then in your minds eye it would be cheap as chips.

    What I am trying to say here is this, you cant say something is bad based on other peoples opinions can you and if you do all you are doing is spreading gossip and not telling people what your personal opinion based on your expeariance is.

    You also stated that "At a seminar i went to I met a guy that had done various martial arts from MMA, JKD, Doce Pares Escrima, Silat and Wrestling and i asked him the question in a street situation what will come out. His answer I don't know." Maybe he was telling you the truth, maybe he does not know, my answer would be the same and I have been in more than my fair share of street situations, what comes out will all depend on what and how the street situation grows and I have done all of the above arts too and then some. Heck even my experiance in the sport FMA has stood me well on the street, go figure eh! And maybe the guy has never been in a street situation, so how would he be able to give you a straight answer, with luck his skills in training in the various arts will stand by him, if he has it in him that is, for no matter what style you train and no matter how you train if there is no fight in the dog then the dog will loose the fight anyway.

    I suggest you go along to a Sayoc Seminar and try it out, you may surprise yourself and you may well like what you see, on the other hand you may hate it, either way it will be money well spent because then you will know for sure if it is or it is not something of value to you. But that does not mean it is not a value to some one else.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  20. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Hahahaha peoples perceptions are always funny, Hey Mick, if you stood side ways and stuck your tounge out you would look like a zip:rolleyes: Not your normal run of the mill Sayoc Kali Instructor huh! And you cant Flamenco like me eh! mate, remember Spain and the 3 day bender and bumping into the Gypsy Kings :)

    Anyway I will be up your way again soon mate you will have to pop by for a jar for old times sake.

    Hahahaha Mick as big as some of the Sayoc Tuhon's, now that I would like to see hahahaha
     

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