Samurai

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Hatamoto, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. Hatamoto

    Hatamoto Beardy Man Kenobi Supporter

    Just wondering, does the word samurai still mean "to serve" in Japan, or is it pretty much just in reference to the warrior class now? Just saw the kanji for samurai and thought it'd make a cool tattoo, but my idea behind it is more "to serve," as in "to do good stuff for my fellow humanfolk" kind of thing, but I don't wanna be one of those many Westerners who have kanji tattood on them that translates out of context. I probably won't bother anyway coz I wanna visit Japan sometime and I fear it would be ground for mockery, but I thought it'd be asking for the sake of curiosity anyway.
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Why not just get it in English? Get a tattoo on your arm/chest that says "I'm a nice guy".

    I bet Westerners who get tattoos in Asian languages look stupid in Asia.
     
  3. Hatamoto

    Hatamoto Beardy Man Kenobi Supporter

    Yeah, I expect they do too, that's why I'm very unlikely to get it. Was just wondering if the meaning has changed, as words in English tend to over time.
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I must say I'm a little confused too.
    The karate I do is "Shidokan".
    With "do" and "kan" being the standard things most understand (do = way, kan = Association).
    But "Shi" means warrior (I think). So roughly it means "Association of the Samurai way".
    So why aren't samurai called "Shi" instead?
    Or why isn't Shidokan called "Samuraidokan"?
    Is "Samurai" a particular type of warrior (as mentioned by Hatamoto) in the same way we'd use "knight"?
     
  5. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    According to a source...I read it meant "vassal"-samurahi from a older Chinese dialect :(
     
  6. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Just make sure the kanji is correct.I used to belong to a karate club that was called Tiger.Well at least that was what the kanji was supposed to say but a visiting Japanese instructor nearly fell over laughing and asked why we had decided to call our club "Chicken".
     
  7. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Yes. i have seen many people unfamiliar with it and put things like this on their uniforms and belts
     
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Samurai is also called "日本浪人(Ri Ben Lang Ren)".

     日本浪人,是日本明治维新时期的产物。   日本早在德川幕府时代,以幕府将军为首的武士阶层执掌着国家的统治大权,而天皇与宫廷贵族,只是作为全国最高统治的精神象征。   德川幕府颁布法令,将社会划分为“士、农、工、商”四个等级,统称“四民”;四民中的“士”,便是武士阶层,属于统治阶级,而农、工、商则是被统治的平民阶层。   德川幕府又将武士阶层划分出不同的等级:幕府将军是这个阶层的“塔尖”,将军家豢养着许多直属家臣;将军之下是诸侯,又称之为“大名”。这些大名,就像中国20世纪二三十年代的军阀,拥兵自重,割据一方,他们各自的领地称之为“藩国”。大名的家臣,叫做“藩士”,藩士又豢养着一批家臣和士卒。结果,从将军到士卒,形成了一个庞大的封建武士阶层。   在德川幕府的统治下,日本社会发展停滞,工业远远落后于西欧诸国;国内民怨沸腾,动乱迭起,统治者与人民之间的矛盾日益激化。日本近代史上一场空前绝后的国内战争也由此爆发。这场历时1年又5个月的内战,以新政府军大获全胜而告终。   1868年8月27日,天皇睦仁即位,改年号“孝明”为“明治”。10月,皇室从京都迁至东京。自此以后,睦仁天皇着手革除封建制度,推行一系列使日本实现资本主义近代化的重大决策,史称“明治维新”。   明治维新的重大改革之一是废藩置县,即废除诸侯的封建领主统治权,将其领土收归国有。其次是改革封建等级制度,取消武士特权。明治政府的这一措施,使武士阶层迅速瓦解,其中少数皇族、贵族变成了大地主、大资本家和银行家,一批中层武士变成了商人、自由职业者和高利贷主。而广大的下层武士则在短期内破了产,成为靠出卖劳动力为生的无产者。   于是,一个具有新的历史特色的阶层——浪人阶层产生了。
     Japan Ronin, is Japan's Meiji period.   Japan as early as the era of the Tokugawa shogunate, led by the shogunate General Samurai class and take the ruling power of the country, while the Emperor and court nobles, but as a spiritual symbol of the National Supreme rule.   The Tokugawa shogunate Decree, divides the community into ", farmers, workers," four levels, collectively referred to as "four people"; in the four-man "", is the Warrior class, and belonging to the ruling class, peasants, workers, is ruled by the civilian sectors. Tokugawa shogunate Samurai class divide different level: Mu-General is the class of "Spire", directly under the General feed many retainer; under generals were nobility, also known as "name". The name, warlord in the twenties or thirties of the 20th century, as China, holding weight, separatist party, their respective territory called the "vassal state". Retainer of the daimyo, known as "military Governors", military governors can feed a group of officials and soldiers.   The results, from generals to soldiers, forming a huge feudal Samurai class. Under the rule of the Tokugawa shogunate, Japan social development stagnated, industry lags far behind Western Europe countries domestic public resentment, unrest happen frequently, increasingly intensified contradictions between the rulers and the people. Japan an unprecedented domestic war which broke out in recent history.   This lasted 1 year and 5 months of civil war, ended in new Government military victory. On August 27, 1868, the Emperor Mutsuhito throne, wares Hare reign-modified "Xiao Ming" for "Meiji". In October, the Royal family moved from Kyoto to Tokyo.   Since then, Muk rentianhuang set out to eliminate the feudal system, implement a series of Japan achieving major policy decision of modern capitalism, known to history as the "Meiji Restoration". Waste is one of the major reforms of the Meiji military governors place, the feudal lords the right to abolish the nobility, nationalized its territory. Second is to reform the feudal hierarchy, cancel a Samurai privilege. This measure of the Meiji government, the Samurai class rapid disintegration, a few monarchs, nobles became large landowners, capitalists and bankers, a group of middle Samurai became a businessman, a freelancer, and loan sharks.   While the majority of lower Samurai is broken in the near future, become a living by selling labor proletarian. So, a historical feature of the new class-a Ronin class.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  9. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Hmm... not really. It all depends on who's doing the looking. Asians in Asia are a pretty varied group... and they're certainly not averse to tattoos themselves. Any day of the year here in Hong Kong you'll see any number of people with ink. In fact it's a rare day when you are out and about that you don't see someone with ink. It's mad popular for women in the last 10 years here.

    I think some Chinese are a bit amused when they see westerners with Chinese characters inked on someone. But what I've always seen is that they tend to see the Chinese character and not the person. They're chuffed that a westerner would get a Chinese character tattooed on them generally. Some sort of strange mix of national pride/recognition and I think secretly many of them long to have ink themselves but in a good many local Chinese families there is no way their parents would allow it. The family still holds sway over most Chinese people. What makes the family look bad is kept at arms distance. Traditionally ink had been the domain of pirates, triads and thugs... it's changed somewhat now... lots of little birdies on girls ankles... Chinese characters on the nape of the neck etc.

    I wouldn't get all that fussed over what Asian people think of your ink... you're not Asian if you're not born Asian and as much as you learn about the culture, ingratiate yourself into a community.... you will always be an outsider. You will always be a foreigner. Fact. If you are overly worried about what they think about your ink then maybe you're getting your ink for the wrong reasons. Something to consider.

    @ Hatamoto - all of that applies doubly so with the Japanese - who are by most measures far more homogeneous than the Chinese. If you get to Japan and you have ink that shows you will find some places off limits to you. Many places don't want any association with gangsters - and in much of Asia - Japan in particular - ink is commonly relegated to the gangster world... eg. Yakuza etc. So bath houses, capsule hotels, some bed and breakfast will refuse you service if you rock up with ink showing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  10. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    so, you are saying what?

    Some scholars say the the Japanese term has Chinese influences-origins.

    This would be no different of other cultural links.

    It is thought, that China had influenced the Japanese culture in many ways.

    In of that, India had influenced China in many ways
     
  11. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    That name is no longer "noble" toward the end of Japanese history. It turned into something like "homeless", "vegabond", "heartless killer", ... The Chinese ancient warriors were not like that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  12. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Ah. Thanks for the refinement of your previous post


    However, if the name is no longer "noble", it still has interaction within jaoanese history-culture to this day.

    As for ancient Chinese warriors, many were not "noble" themselves
     
  13. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    To answer your question, no it stands for the warrior class. Getting it branded on your arm or something would be a bit like a Japanese guy getting a tat of "knight" in some cool Gothic script(yes it would be as nerdy as well). Yes, many foreigners with kanji for tattoos look stupid, especially when they mess up the characters. I once saw a tattoo parlor in the States where they had the characters for scholar and warrior reversed on the description board on the wall. Pure comedy. Having said that, the kanji for samurai would probably confuse most Japanese more than anything else, besides the fact that having it visible on your body would prevent your entry into some public bathing facilities(that is if they didn't already exclude you for being a foreigner). The kanji 日本浪士 would be a weird way to write samurai. As samurai are Japanese, you don't need to preference it with 日本, which means Japanese. 浪士(roushi) basically means ronin, a term more familiar in the West. In Japan, it is now more commonly used with students who don't pass the college entry tests and therefore have to cram their butts off for an extra year. Roushi would probably never have had a noble connotation, as it was considered bad for a warrior to roam about derelict without being a retainer to a particular lord.
     
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    How about a tat that reads "Sam-I-Am", it is close to Samurai and many would get a better laugh of it
     
  15. Hatamoto

    Hatamoto Beardy Man Kenobi Supporter

    That answers my question, then, the meaning has changed. Cheers reality.
    Fair point about getting it for the wrong reasons, Slip. Was more in the context of contempt, or showing up to a business meeting in a mankini kind of inappropriateness than anything. I admit I don't know a lot about Japanese culture.

    I'll just go with one of those "fear no man" style websites about what a nice bloke I am, with hundreds of testimonials from made up people who've never met me xD
     
  16. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    I fail to see the inappropriateness in that course of action. :p
     
  17. Taizu

    Taizu Valued Member

    Just a word of warning, having a tatoo here will prevent you from going to the vast majority of Japanese baths(onsen), gyms, swimming pools etc. Pretty much anywhere your tatoo can be seen (due to nakedness, partial or otherwise). These places will not allow people with tatoos due to the connotation they have with the yakuza.
     
  18. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I would think that they would allow you to bath out of fear for the Yakuza.
     
  19. Hatamoto

    Hatamoto Beardy Man Kenobi Supporter

    Bugger, I only have one tattoo but it's not hugely discreet and is on the inside of my forearm. Luckily bathing with a bunch of dudes isn't my idea of a good time xD
     
  20. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Who said the bath houses had only guys and not women to assist? :evil:
     

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