Running Barefoot!

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Pitfighter, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. NinjaPlease

    NinjaPlease Ninjas always say Please.

    So you believe that its better to impact on your heels than to impact on the balls of your feet? When running on balls of your feet you leg muscles absorb the impact so its not has hard on your knees.
     
  2. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I didn't indicate my personal beliefs, though my many previous contributions to the thread will surely indicate my interest, I just reported another viewpoint and that I can understand it.

    There is no conclusive study that I'm aware of, perhaps you are, otherwise the jury is still out and it's worth considering all viewpoints. :)

    Mitch
     
  3. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    Problem with this idea is that the average age was the 30's due to a very high percentage of childhood deaths as well as death my misadventure (ie being stomped on by mammoths etc). IIRC once past childhood the general age of death was around 60-70 years old.

    Edit: Here's Mark Sisson's article on it.
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expectancy-hunter-gatherer/#axzz25vCQYdwz
     
  4. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    You may be right, but I'm not so sure and that doesn't take into account the expectations of the kind of lifestyle led at those ages. Her ideas were based on examining wear in cadavers IIRC.

    Again, I'm not saying she is right, I'm offering an alternative viewpoint as I don't believe there is conclusive evidence one way or the other, though I'd love to see some :)

    Mitch
     
  5. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    I would too :) I recall hearing just recently a study that showed that runners (regardless of style) do not actually show any increased amounts of knee damage, and that running actually helps the knees due to increased lubrication. I think if you have problems with your knees or feet with your current style then it may be very useful to try barefoot running, but if you have no issues then it's probably not worth it because of the long breakin period.
     
  6. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    Her point was from cadaver wear? She examined cadavers from both barefoot runners and shod runners? Color me impressed. And skeptical.
     
  7. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    When I'm running light, I just shake my dog ear necklace at them and growl. Nobody wants to end up a trophy.
     
  8. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Day 3 of breaking in my 5 fingers and I think I'm adjusting to them a bit better now. I feel like I'm walking a bit more naturally and not stomping so much. I went for a walk round the garden in them and like the sensory feedback my feet get from them. I felt that I was more stable walking over the gravel section of the garden - I didn't feel I was slipping or wobbling as much as when I wear trainers.

    They are rubbing a bit on my heels (more so on the achilles part of the back of my ankle) but I suspect this is more to do with my skin being use to having socks on and it should harden up the more I wear the shoes. I'm not sure I feel like my running stride is much different in them, but then I only jogged up and down the garden a few times.

    I'm going to spend time doing some reading about the pros and cons of barefoot running. I suspect there will be some bias in the research, with the trainer companies (and their funded studies) favouring more cushioning and the 'natural' fans liking the barefoot. From what I've read so far, the impact issue seems to be in favour of the barefoot, but what is true of treadmill studies done in a lab may not have carryover into road running, as other factors may be involved.

    Some ideas that I'm interested in and suspect more research will be needed on include:

    1. Is there any benefit to barefoot shoes to people who spend all day in heeled shoes (or high heeled shoes) and only a couple of hours a week going barefoot. Do people who wear less supportive shoes most of the time benefit more from these types of footwear, i.e. do you need to make more of a lifestyle choice to move away from cushioning and supportive footwear or can you help with postural issues etc just by going barefoot for a few hours per week.

    2. Can a lack of cushioning be problematic for people who run a lot on concrete or tarmac rather than more natural, softer surfaces like grass or off road tracks.

    3. Can going 'barefoot' actually be detrimental to someone who has spent all their life building up muscles for wearing shoes. The data does seem to suggest that doing too much barefoot running too soon can cause problems such as shin splints, but I wonder whether it could cause other long term problems by throwing other muscles out of balance.
     
  9. NinjaPlease

    NinjaPlease Ninjas always say Please.

    Thanks for the info! :)
     
  10. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    I'm afraid I only wear high heels while making home movies so I'm not qualified to answer this one. :(

    It seemed to help me even when wearing normal person shoes, but I was very conscious of correcting my posture as often as possible once I became fatigued and began breaking form. If I kept falling back into bad form, it was time to walk a leg until I recovered.

    Yes. I chafed and developed callouses and blisters from the lack of socks. As my skin thickened, I learned to fit the gear better, and I'm sure as it broke down to the shape of my specific foot this became much less of an issue. I also started developing splints and painful muscle/ligament tears on the interior and exterior sides of the shin and ankle because I went all out on a hard surface without gradually becoming acclimated. This stopped being an issue after 2-3 weeks and I was able to run without the usual soreness I receive wearing running shoes.

    I used hot Epsom salt bathes coupled with massages and then hot pink lotion latherings to combat the lower leg stress. Neigh! Also, I learned to alternate between running shoes and minimalist shoes to rotate muscle groups to reduce recovery time and required rest days.

    I didn't discover any as it seemed to reduce my tendency toward injuries. For whatever reason, possibly because it's less forgiving in some ways, I found it much easier to maintain proper erect and relaxed posture while landing and springing off of my toes versus conventional running shoes.
     
  11. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    So I've been mooching round the house in my VFFs for the last week or so and I've noticed my legs feeling a bit achy and tired. This week I started my 'outdoor' training. I did a 2km walk on grass and then the next day I did 6x105m runs on grass in my VFFs and today I did a 1 mile walk on pavement.

    I notice a bit of foot, toe and ankle DOMS starting, so will be taking it easy and not rushing into stuff. I like the enhanced sensory feedback the shoes provide. I'm having to think about my stride to aim more for midfoot/forefoot striking and found on the walk today I'm still stomping a bit. I suspect the stomping is coming from the fact that my body expects the built up heel of the shoe to hit the ground first, but obviously the VFFs don't have a heel so are throwing my stride off somewhat.
     
  12. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Oh, yes, you do pay for those heel strikes in a pair of VFFs. I could run with a forefoot strike in my old pair (I need to replace them one of these days), but I would, once in a blue moon, come down--fairly lightly--on my heel. Oh no! I could feel it right to the bone. Not totally painful, but definitely awkward.
     
  13. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Have you ever done capoeira in VFFs or do you train fully barefoot or with shoes on? I've always done it barefoot and the odd time I've tried with shoes on it just felt wrong. However, the place I'm hoping to start training with again (once my back is sorted and if they're still running the class) is in an old church hall and the floor can be a bit manky.
     
  14. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    In angola we always train in shoes. But at home, we don't wear shoes inside, so there I practice barefoot. I've tried doing capoeira in VFFs and they were absolutely fine--until I had to pivot. They were just too 'sticky' and felt as though they would make me torque at the knee if I kept it up. It could have been something about the way I was turning or something particular to the sole of the KSOs. Another guy in our group has the Bikilas and doesn't seem to have a problem turning in them.
     
  15. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    I did wonder about the pivot issue - I found the same thing trying to kick box in trainers.
     
  16. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    Try to make sure you land with your foot underneath your body, it helps a great deal with landing on the front of your foot. It does mean you have to take a smaller step.
     
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I could guess those who cannot afford proper shoes could have no choice but to run barefoot
     
  18. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Starting to find the post run DOMS is lessening now. I still have to think a bit about foot position on landing, but it's getting easier each session. One interesting observation is that I have an old neck injury that always use to stiffen up after a run in conventional shoes and it doesn't seem to do so after a run in my VFFs - might be an indication of the VFFs lessening impact by altering stride pattern.
     
  19. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    Do you do any running uphill to help you get that forefoot landing?
     
  20. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Some of my road run is up hill because I live on a hill, so I have no choice about it! I tend to land midfoot without much effort in the VFFs but am working on eliminating the heel landing altogether.
     

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