Running Barefoot!

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Pitfighter, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    I'm sorry but I don't think my technique was off. I'm sure it is because I got overzealous. I ran at night so that the asphalt part of my local bike trail wouldn't burn my feet. And yes I actually tried to run barefoot on it in the day. After about 100 yards the burn gets quite obvious.

    I ran 2 miles. The first mile I had absolutely no problems. By the second though it was clear to me that my feet were not used to this so I slowed to a jog/walk pace. It is on the second mile that I got the blisters. And then I stepped on a big ass rock which is where my blood blister came from.

    I basically ran too far out and I had left my shoes behind. What I should have done was run 1/2 a mile out and back for one complete mile and finished up my running on the grassfield nearby.

    I usually run on grass but switching to pavement especially pavement with gravel and sticks strewn across it is quite different.

    You need the calluses. The idea that it is technique instead of calluses is a bit ridiculous. I run on the balls of my feet like the dude in your link. Just as you need to strengthen your achilles heel so to must you toughen up your soles.

    If you buy into the idea of barefoot running. And I do. It is an incremental change because at least in my case I've been running with shoes for 20+ years. My feet have adapted to shoes and time and practice is what will allow me to run better barefoot.

    Don't get me wrong since the switch I've only had one serious ankle strain the past 9 months compared to a serious monthly ankle strain the year prior.

    While I advocate running barefoot I'm not against minimalist shoes. We really have no idea what surface others are running on. And unless you grew up in a neighborhood with jagged rocks or broken glass I think we should reserve our judgement on people who compromise with the minimalist shoes.

    But... I do hate those damn Vibrams.:eek:
     
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I have known "country" relatives to walk and run barefoot.

    I have known a few to have foot problems from doing so.
     
  3. flammee

    flammee Valued Member

    My first barefoot run was 2,5 km. Second one was 13 km. Granted, I got bood blister on that second run, but it wasn't very big. And I run on asphalt only. I have been training barefoot running technique for half a year, it's not close to perfect yet. I still need to pay attention on not pushing off when foot leaves the ground. Not pushing off is maybe the biggest against common sense thing in barefoot running, you don't consciously use muscles of your lower legs to run. If you get sore calves, you are most likely doing it wrong.

    Where do you need those calluses? If there's any friction at every step, it will eventually eat through the calluse, like when running a marathon.. No friction and no need of calluses and actually, if you step without friction, no calluses will develop. It's not my idea that we don't need calluses, it's that dude's behind that link. Little toughening of soles yes, but not really calluses. Barefoot running technique is much more than running on the balls of the feet..

    Here are the "few" points of barefoot running: http://therunningbarefoot.com/?page_id=525

    If you enforce landing on the ball of the foot, you are doing it wrong. Landing with ball of the foot is about right stride length and right amount bending of the knees. Ankles should be relaxed.



    Yeah, there's also winter, here it's bit too cold half of the year. But, if you have optimal conditions, then run barefoot, to learn good running technique most efficiently. Running on grass is surely nice, but it doesn't teach you anything. Rough asphalt does, because friction tears your soles apart very fast. So you learn to step without friction.

    I like outlook of vibrams, but they are not really that nice to wear.. :p


    Barefoot running thing, btw, is quite opposite to martial arts way of moving. In martial arts, pushing of with calf muscles is most essential, barefoot running is about using momentum and relatively slow acceleration, in martial arts you need fast explosive movements and direction changes.. I believe that acknowledging the difference and learning how the power generation of movement works is quite useful though.
     
  4. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Findings these past 3 weeks: it gets a bit extreme on tarmac. Especially tarmac where you have to dodge broken glass every so often. Mind you, nothing teaches you to mind where you're putting your feet quite like that did.
     
  5. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    I had no blisters the first mile. I stepped on the rock that gave me the blood blister the middle of the second. I think that was what caused me to change my natural stride and probably lead to my other 2 blisters. So I don't believe I ran incorrectly per se I just ran too much considering I'm not acclimated to asphalt. If your calves hurt its probably because your ankle muscles aren't used to the instability of wearing no shoes.
    Basically all this says is if you get hurt your running wrong. Ummm OK. Look going back that logic I should stop running barefoot because I've hurt myself.

    The idea that your feet should be the same but somehow just better by running better is a bit well naive IMO. Just as your ankles must become acclimated to having no support so too should your soles become more sensitive to balancing and tougher without the protection of the shoe.

    Isn't this whole point of running barefoot? To reduce injury by exposing your feet to stimuli it has been blocked off from by shoes. I'd venture to say that this Bob in your link doesn't notice his calluses because as he states in his biographical snippets he used to walk and run around barefoot as a kid. Newcomers to this method are going to see and feel changes on their foot.
    I completely agree that with no shattered glass or jagged rocks and such running completely barefoot is preferable to wearing minimalist shoes. But just like I ran on grass before switching to harder surfaces I think that even under ideal conditions minimalist shoes would be better than wearing overcushioned shoes and may help people transition to barefoot running.

    I run for cardio. I don't think that running, just running around in general, mimics most athletic movements. You don't run in a cage or ring or mat. Even in sports like football, basketball or tennis your running but also pivoting, stopping suddenly, turning corners, sidestepping. Running helps me burn calories, increases my lung capacity, and keeps my heart healthy. Although I engage in other aerobic activities like swimming, punching bags, sparring when I can, dancing, etc. Nothing does it better for me than running. Cardio is essential and exercises your heart. It's not going to make you punch harder but if you die of a heart attack because you didn't run enough then well you won't be able to punch at all.
     
  6. flammee

    flammee Valued Member

    Well, I just wonder how did you get that impression that after one mile, when not hurt or anything, you felt like your feet are not ready for running more on asphalt?

    Ummm, no. Just that running technique without shoes is different than with shoes, but it can be learnt by paying attention how you run and trying out different aspects of barefoot running technique.

    Well, yes, there is bit of conditioning at the start.. But that doesn't mean that technique isn't at least as important as conditioning. No amount of conditioning is going to be enough, if technique is wrong. If you have run with shoes for 20 years, your natural stride is probably natural shoe running stride. Or it might be just okay also.


    Well, it might be, but I think that's unlikely. Anyway, with proper running technique, contact between road and soles should be as light in barefoot running as it is when you are standing on place and lifting your feet up and down. That doesn't need calluses.
     
  7. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    Well the whole reason I started barefoot running was after I had injured my right ankle. After it healed the first time it was easier to re-injure. I did research on various techniques and tried it out a few times on grass and liked it. Along with various ankle stretches and exercises I've managed to keep my ankle injury free for the most part and now I'm try various things to strengthen it even more and prevent further injury.

    Starting on asphalt after a year of running barefoot was simple. The first few months I had a weak ankle and wasn't sure which techniques would work after trial and error I found the exercises that favored putting the ankle in unstable situations kept my ankle stronger when it wasn't currently injured. Then fall and winter came and it was too cold. When summer hit again it was just to hot in the day. So I continued running on grass because it
    was never burning hot so I had more flexibility in my running schedule. Now that schools are out and its summer I expect more youth and soccer leagues out on the field I usually run on. So I've decided to take up jogging on evenings despite the lower visibility, in terms of gravel.

    Look this is starting to sound contradictory. Paying attention to how you do things isn't really ever wrong. It is how you improve technique. Even if you don't know why something is right or wrong it helps you seek out the information you need to solve a problem or better yet realize why you should continue to do something right. I don't see how you can be in favor of technique and at the same time dismiss the most basic way of improving technique through observation.

    Maybe you were just born with perfect feet. I'm very flat footed so maybe that makes a difference. Honestly though I don't know why your getting so hung up on the calluses. I've continued running on pavement and gotten one more blister but my other blisters are fading and after a little rest I'm sure this one will go away to. I actually thought my previous blisters were fully healed but they weren't. They had actually changed back to normal skin tones and deflated, well until I ran another mile. It is entirely possible that my newest blister only formed because I jumped the gun.

    Regardless of whether or not I'll have more blisters which would lead to calluses I don't know why your deadset that calluses are a sign something's wrong. I have calluses from lifting weights and doing physical labor on my hand's. My mom has calluses from sewing. Am I lifting wrong? I doubt it. Does my mom suck at sewing? I doubt it.

    Let's just continue on in our pursuit for better health and martial arts dude. If you think calluses are in your way find a way around it. I think calluses are really irrelevant to your health but are inevitable to physical labor.
     
  8. iammartialarts

    iammartialarts Banned Banned

    hell ya!! barefoot running is the only way to go in my opinion. i have a couple pairs of vibram 5's but i prefer runnig with no shoes on at all. Before i hated running, its actually fun barefoot!

    I got rid of all my athletic shoes they suck, you dont get injured running barefoot (except when you first start, and you get blisters first starting from asphalt and rough cement till you build up some good skin :))


    there are many different books on it ive only read chi running and born to run, chi runnings not about barefoot, just about how to run, but im never going back to shoes.
     
  9. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    Just to update. My barefoot running has been a little inconsistent due to life getting in the way but I still do it.

    I usually run on pavement now and have not had anymore blisters. I still get a little I dunno raw though. But i've even managed to run on hot pavement. Maybe burning coals are next, J/K.

    I do run slower for sure but the one time I ran on grass I definitely picked up speed ran 6 laps in the same time it used to take me 4 laps. Don't know the real distance cuz its not marked off on the field i use.
     
  10. flammee

    flammee Valued Member

    I'll update too. I have had hard times with my ankles so I have shortened the length of distances I run, but run everyday and not on asphalt. I tried runnig to work and back, and got bit injured, running back home with stiff legs from work, didn't work too well. Guess I need to still practise barefooting technique and wait for my feet to adapt for barefooting too..

    Atleast, this article tells that there is a bit more adaptation process than I thought a while ago: http://www.runbare.com/446/how-to-transition-into-vibram-five-fingers/

    So now, I'm running 3 km everyday with first couple of hundred meters on grass, rest of the distance on small gravel, which enforces the right running technique.. But yeah, it hurts a bit, especially in rain, like today.
     
  11. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Been wearing my Nike Free Everydays on several occasions this week (not for running, just for going out and about) and I've notice I'm getting DOMS in my feet and ankles. I guess its due to me using muscles in a way they're not used to. I intend to gradually up the amount of time I spend in them and see what happens.
     
  12. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    I haven't run barefoot in about a month due to unrelated injuries.

    However last time I was running on pavement with no problems. I plan on running barefoot again next summer or if there's a serious warm spell in fall.

    I was even thinking of stepping up to gravel. But I'm goina put that on hold. Running barefoot I haven't acclimated all the way cuz I still run slower. I run about 1.5 miles to 1.8 in 20 minutes. Usually I run about 2.5 miles in shoes.

    I'm goina work on running faster on pavement and grass when it gets warmer instead of rougher terrain.

    In the meantime I'll just work on speed in my cheap fairly uncushioned shoes. Still got no intention on buying high priced minimalist shoes.
     
  13. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I picked up a few magazines recently with articles on barefoot running, I thought they might be of interest to folks here :)

    The first article is from Men's Health (I know, I'm sorry, but it was only once, honestly).

    Mitch
     

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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Here's another article from Runner's World. I'll try using attachments this time.

    Mitch
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Final two pages from the Runner's World article.

    mitch
     

    Attached Files:

  16. benkei

    benkei Valued Member

    Thanks for posting that up Mitch. It always disappoints me when I see professionals wade into a debate such as this and discredit it with crappy logic. For example:

    "I don't buy these evolutionary arguments at all. If someone is running in shoes all their life then that is their natural state"
    Clearly this person has no clue about evolutionary biology. Their natural state is what they were born with, not what someone put on them due to societal conventions. The human body hasn't evolved so quickly that the foot now requires a shoe. Evolution generally supports a stronger trait in an organism, requiring a shoe isn't.

    The we have the podiatrist who naysays on barefoot running because people immediately ditch their shoes and run hundreds of km straight up. Apparently common sense isn't common. Ask any barefooter who knows what they are doing and they will recommend building up to it.
    Not only that, the podiatrist tries to put a negative spin on research that positively states barefoot running is less likely to cause injury than with shoes with pure speculation that doesn't add up at all.

    And to be honest, the final argument is by far the most negative piece of crap I have seen (no doubt because the running mag doesn't want their footwear advertisers running off). "Just because tribes can run ultra marathons in barefeet, we've been comfortable wearing shoes for a few millenia, why change?" (Slightly changed wording on my part)
    Seriously, what a **** poor way to sum things up. The fact that shoe companies cannot offer a single piece of evidence that their products decrease injury was given a single line in that entire article. Yet half the article was "experts" with crappy reasoning telling us we shouldn't do it. Terrible biased journalism much?

    It's interesting the difference in the two articles. The MH article, while much shorter, gives us the idea that it could be a solution. It also features Harvard physiologists and the barefoot movement founder himself. The runners magazine gives us peripheral "experts" such as a podiatrist (at least they have a biomechanist though) who pretty much tell us not to do it because the research isn't there (despite as I noted earlier that there is NO literature on shoe injury prevention). The running magazine would rely on alot of running shoe advertising. MH can get their advertising from a variety of sources. Anyone seeing a pattern here?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
  17. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    Its a damn shame fall came so quick to VA. Really miss my barefoot running but fall and winter are great reminders for what shoes were invented for. I think I just might buy some aqua shoes it might be better in the rain and have a more minimalist effect then my current cheap sneakers
     
  18. benkei

    benkei Valued Member

  19. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Some thread necromancy :)

     
  20. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    I just picked up a pair of Five Fingers for £50, so will be interested to see if they make a difference. I definitely walk differently in them, whether or not this is a good thing remains to be seen. At the very least, I can use them for lifting.
     

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