Ronda Rousey admitted to beating up her ex, so should we be outraged?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by greg1075, Nov 11, 2015.

  1. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Only if you owned the camel :evil:


    On another note pertaining to the actual thread

    This would have to be looked upon as reasonable or excessive force.

    Could it be said, that fighters tend to direct their aggressive training too much in real-life minor confrontations?
     
  2. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Whereas I can see the sense in much of what you have said, its like my mother always says; There are 3 sides to any story: your side, their side and then the truth.

    This is one persons account of what happened. If Rousey had in fact issued a beating to this guy and he wasn't trying to stop her leaving, that could be a crime and she could be in trouble legally speaking. No one in their right mind would admit to that in a book. I'm not saying that is what happened, none of us were there at the time. It's one version of events from a person who by their own admission was in an elevated emotional state (and understandably so).

    All that said, we are unlikely to hear "McCreepy"s side of the story as it may land him in trouble legally.
     
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Absolutely. I did a little * in an earlier post to show my view is all dependent on Rousey's account being accurate. Which it probably isn't. But it's the only account we have.
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Here's the course of events by her account...

    Initial slap. Assault probably but very justified in my eyes. Personal mileage may vary on that.
    Attempt to leave.
    Exit is barred and order not to leave given.
    Straight right and left hook to clear the exit.
    That didn't clear the path.
    Another slap. That didn't clear the exit either.
    A grab and knee clears the exit and she leaves.
    He follows.
    She grabs him again to get him out he car.

    Where's the throttling? No mention of that. The violence ends when she is free to leave.

    For sure she could have handled it differently (talked to him, called the cops when he barred her way) but I can understand why it went as it did and she did not over step the mark too badly.
     
  5. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    evidenced by the BBC article we were talking about regarding race and education.

    btw i totally agree with you, there is a gap in recognizing and providing services to men suffering domestic violence by women.

    http://search.proquest.com/openview/dd3f457235b1b4c95e40d4aa107b3c42/1?pq-origsite=gscholar

    ^an identified gap but i have yet to see if this specific type (female provoked and maintained) is as common as male maintained. i put that down to a lot of male victim domestic violence being hidden
     
  6. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Every scorned lover trying to prevent their partner from leaving without hearing them out constitutes kidnapping? I don’t think so.
     
  7. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    If you want to check whether whatever argument holds, just flip the situation. Gf takes naked pics of boyfriend without him knowing or whatever similar premise. He gets mad, slaps her and leaves her telling her they’re over. She tries to prevent him from leaving without hearing her out. He punches her and throws her to the floor. Still not domestic violence?
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Depends on the relative size and strength differential as to what is reasonable. Like in any situation.
    I've already said the initial slap was assault and to be honest I wouldn't blame a guy for slapping a woman in anger in the same situation.
    Probably wouldn't do it myself but I can understand it.
    Like it or not a much bigger and stronger person preventing another from leaving is different than the reverse no matter what the sexes are.
    If Gabi Garcia was preventing me leaving I'd punch her.
     
  9. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Huh, I could have sworn I read he'd been throttled. Probably read that elsewhere.

    NVM, scratch that particular point.

    'Tis a good rule of thumb, that one.
     
  10. Travess

    Travess The Welsh MAPper Supporter

    No, not at all - From a legal stand point, the definition of 'Kidnapping' requires that the victim be moved (removed?) from their current location, and then restrained against their will. The term 'Unlawful Restraint' on the other hand, could well be used when dealing with perimitres that you highlighted in your post.

    Regards

    Travess
     
  11. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Cool beans. Thanks for posting. Having difficulty reading the full text, unfortunately. But I can probably find a way round that later.

    That very much depends on which research piece you look at. The larger studies & longitudinal ones carried out by more impartial observers have found overall there's approximately even rates (examples mentioned earlier).

    Some researchers (like Murray Straus) have actually found sole female perpetration of partner violence is more common than sole male perpetration, with mutual violence being the most common.

    http://gauss.unh.edu/~mas2/ID41E2.pdf

    There's also the condensed report on a study (Whitaker; 2007) which also found women were more likely to be the sole abusers than men (EDIT: In cases of sole perpetration, America specific):

    http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/pn.42.15.0031a

    Nation depending, there's also a variety of data that provides some illuminating examples. In the USA, for example, the CDC found male victims of domestic abuse overall were more common than women, with women making a huge chunk of overall abusers - but that research needs to be taken with a decent pinch of salt. I have a copy of a 2009 NSPCC report, for example, that shows girls are just as likely to be physically abusive to their male partners as teenagers as the other way and in some cases, will do so for the deliberate sake of being violent more often than boys - though the report then goes on to blame older boys anyway (go figure) and again needs to be read carefully.

    A lot of it depends on where you look, how large the study is and what ideological biases the researchers have - funnily enough, researchers who find the vast majority of abuse is perpetrated by men typically tend to believe the Duluth Model is a practical method of understanding partner violence, even though it is neither evidential based nor a form of CBT. That's before you examine the methodology - some researchers have a nasty habit of forgetting to ask men about their experiences or deliberately downplaying them:

    http://domestic-violence.martinsewell.com/DuttonCorvo2006.pdf

    I think there's a lot of truth to that. Most research I've seen indicates that men are significantly more likely to not report being victims than women, which makes it hard to get male victims recognised as needing help. There's also some rather dark research I can find that shows men are far less likely to be believed than women are, more likely to be arrested even if they're the victim (and so on).

    There's also a bucket-tonne of politics from advocacy groups to throw in the mix and advocacy groups' history of deliberately misrepresenting data which doesn't help (example of conflation of stats: Femicide Census), but that's not a pleasant conversation to have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yeah knew there'd be something like that.
    That's what I was getting at and wasn't sure on the terminology. I was thinking of (I think) the OJ case where he stopped some people leaving a hotel room and got charged for that (IIRC)
    It doesn't make every scorned lover trying to prevent someone leaving a kidnapper but the command "You're not leaving" certainly changes the situation no matter who's saying it.
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I would say this would be based in context.

    He was preventing her from leaving to attempt to explain the reason he did what he did (we can most likely assume at this time)
    Very doubtful he had intent to kidnap. (regardless if he knew if he was going to be successful or not, also based on assumption)
     
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Absolutely. We're missing tone of voice, facial expression and all sorts of stuff.
    I merely brought that up because the initial post makes it sound like she just walked up to him and duffed him up. And also to highlight how using violence to get OUT of a situation (which I think was part of Rousey's mindset here...not all mind...she surely was mightily cheesed off too...she's not a saint in this situation) is different to using violence to keep someone IN a situation (a very common use of violence in domestic settings).
     
  15. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Definitely not kidnapping - that was not really in question - and though I'm not a lawyer and we're missing details, I'll go out on a limb to say I doubt a strong case could be made for unlawful restraint. Desperate lovers trying to get their partners not to walk out on them and hear them out happens everywhere every day. Unless it goes too far, I don't see it being the case for nothing more than a warning. That said, it really isn't the crux of the matter. I've witnessed that type of stuff. I've been involved in something similar and no one on the right side of reason resorts to punching their way out of it. Again, flip the situation around. gf cheats on bf. He gets mad, slaps her and tries to leave. She's desperate to get him to hear her out and tries to stop him. And he...punches her? Does it matter if the guy is 5'7'' and 160lbs and the girl the girl 5'10'' and 180lbs? No it doesn't. As if a small woman slapping the crap out of a bigger man doesn't constitute physical abuse. Domestic abuse is domestic abuse is domestic abuse.
     
  16. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Backtracking quite a lot, been a busy day. Apologies.

    -Ahem-

    Things do not have to be serious on this forum. But, there are certain lines we as a community draw around what is and isn't allowed here and comments like the above one are firmly in the "not allowed" camp.

    I bring this up a couple pages late as I'm well aware not everyone here posts in the mma boards and so may not be aware, but those jokes are something I personally have zero tolerance for and so far as my position as a mod allows I have been, and will continue to, come down hard on people making them.

    There is an image we want MAP to present and there are images we want to avoid as much as possible. The types of places where those comments are rife are in the latter camp. We have fighters on this forum. In the last year or two we've had a massive increase in people being willing to share videos of themselves, and open up more instead of this being a forum of faceless strangers behind a pseudonym. That's something I want encouraged and I can tell you for a fact that female fighters, let alone female posters in general, will be put off joining this community and contributing their knowledge and experience if they see comments like that going unchecked like we condone it. We do not.

    Its your post MartialMan so naturally this is aimed at you, but its a warning that goes for everyone else on this forum. Take those 'jokes' to Sherdog or Bushido. We're not having them here.


    Now, back to whatever you'll were talking about :)
     
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    SouthPaw,

    You are very correct. My error, my apology to those
     
  18. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Justifiable rage does not, EVER justify assault. How can you possibly justify it?

    Lets turn your analogy around. What if it was she who took nude photos of him, and he beat her down in your justifiable rage. Would you support his right to do so, like you currently support her right to assault him?

    If not, then your thinking is flawed on many levels.

    You do realize the slippery slope that unleashes right?

    Oh and beating down someone who is currently in the act of sexually assaulting your child is not anywere near the same thing. Were I am from, it is in the realm of castle doctrine. Which allows the use of lethal force to repel a forceable felony currently being committed. AKA it is defending the other person.

    Edit to add. Also, to my Knowledge, no nude photo's from RR have ever been leaked. So lasting career or personal harm came to her. NO Justification what so ever.
     
  19. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Personally, I'd disagree with that. That kind of approach in my experience can lead to asinine assumptions that can drastically affect how people treat a set of circumstances.

    "Oh, so she beat you up? Well you're bigger and look stronger, why didn't you just hold her down or restrain her? Why didn't you defend yourself? Are you sure that smaller person really beat you up?"

    Yes, size, weight and strength can play factors. But at no point should they necessarily be a deciding factor in what's acceptable when talking about what is and is not abuse, violence, assault, etc.

    A person punching you is still a person punching you. A person slapping you is still a person slapping you. And so forth.

    So...let me get this straight. She finds creepy pics of herself and gets understandably angry. Instead of leaving anyway and calling him, she waits for him to get home, allowing herself to get angrier and angrier. He walks in, protests and gets slapped. He tries to stop her going, presumably (as far as we know) so he can try and "reason" out the situation. She lays him out with multiple strikes (couple of punches and a slap), a knee and being thrown on the floor. He follows her trying to "explain"* himself, she forcefully removes him from the car and drives off.

    Now I grant you, I have no real issue with her removing him from the car. From what we are told, that does not sound excessive.

    But in that scenario, you seem him as the one displaying abusive behaviour....and she's "defending" herself from his creepy pics by being physically abusive?

    :thinking:

    I think one of the problems here is the assumption that DV is about "control". Whilst it is true that there are patterns of behaviour that can be a form of control abuse (stalking, blackmail, financial abuse, etc), DA/DV is far broader than that and the vast majority of IPV is not actually about control specifically.

    *Insert "Research carried out by Nicola Graham-Kevan (Graham-Kevan; 2007) overwhelmingly debunks the concept of patriarchal violence and violence as control" comment here for good measure*

    *If there was anything to explain and if he wasn't just a creep.

    An increasingly angry woman waits for a man to turn up, shows him something, she yells at him and then slaps him, he tries to stop her storming off, she decks him, he tries to stop her going still by getting in the car, she drags him off and drives away, having left the man she just wailed on lying on the pavement?

    ...Yeah, I'd still be concerned about her behaviour.

    There's no doubt he acted like a doofus. But her actions had as much (arguably more) to do with causing the violence that followed. She didn't have to wait for him. She could have just walked away sooner. She didn't have to carry on hitting him after the first couple of punches put him down.

    ^^^^

    I wish more people understood that concept.

    But, you know, he did something to make her angry, he upset her, you know. So he totally deserved getting a beating for doing something wrong to her.
     
  20. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    As much as I agree with everything you said before, this I think is a bit of an irrelevancy. That no nudes were leaked doesn't necessarily mean there was no intention, no threat, no possibility of it being leaked (etc). You can't make that judgement in that moment unless you're psychic. Trying to judge justification for it after the fact isn't helpful.

    The rest I agree with though.
     

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