rolling with big guys

today, i got to roll with a gentleman that was over 300 pounds. i'm not a small man: 6'0" (1.83 m), 200lb (90 kg).

we drilled today starting from closed guard. i was on bottom to start. i knew right away that he was going to open my guard, because i was barely able to get my feet together. my plan was to keep him off me at all costs. so i immediately went to my favorite open guard: lapel and sleeve with my knee in his shoulder. did pretty good holding him off, but eventually his weight made it very difficult. he completely smashed me and got on top into side control, but i got lucky and quickly was able to get a hook in. we ended up going back into a kind of closed guard because he was in danger of squashing me. i kept trying to work a 2-hand collar choke, but his neck was so big i couldn't work it.

after 3 minutes, it was my turn to be in his closed guard. that was a little easier because i was on top. beforehand, i decided i was going to squat lift him--my favorite closed guard opener. wasn't a bad idea because i figured that no one probably ever tries that on him. in the process, i opened his guard and worked some passes but couldn't get by before time expired.

is there anything you guys try for people that are much bigger than yourselves? what do you find the most success with?

 

I heard my instructor talking to girls about passing much larger men's guard. He says that pressure passing is often best, because it takes away all their power and momentum. So open their guard, then either double under or over/under and pass whilst trying to make them do the splits

 

Can't speak for BJJ, but in general vs bigger folk, requires better movement, agility, stamina, timing, raw strength/energy, determination -> but finding where they are weak e.g. joints.

If they match you in most of these, then you are pretty much toasted.

 

I too have this struggle regularly. One of our team-mates and a good friend of mine is in the 430-pound range, and he's tall as well. His size seems to alter the normal fulcrum points one can establish for leverage and if you post on the lower abdomen at all, it's poor odds that you'll be able to have a stable surface to push against.

I've had mixed luck, and have determine it better to not go to your back if you can help it. That being impossible to achieve 100% of the time though, there are a few things that I've found that work for me.

From inside your "closed" guard, set up half a cross collar choke, or a ball-bat grip will work and open up to let them pass to the side you need to complete your choke, as they pass set up the other grip and use that change in angle they create when they move toward side control to tighten it.

Open guard defense, what we call "crazy legs" in our gym gives the guy fits, kind of like a recurring knee shield. I only have success with this if I use it to try to set up for a waiter sweep or x-guard to sweep though as it doesn't take long for him to try to establish grips on the pants and initiate a toreando, often to devastating effect.

Passing his open guard, toreando can work, but I've had a lot of success using a collar and opposite knee grip, pinning the knee and passing to that side.

 

yeah, southpaw. the knee shield kept him off me. i kept trying to do the cross-face on the collar choke. but the dude's neck was so thick, i couldn't get around. he kept using his neck fat to shrug me off. lol

 

Finding 93 guard, and linking it to z guard, and regular half guard has worked for me. Generally having a very active open guard helps loads too.

Always try to sweep or pass directly to the back too!

 

I don't like being on my back at all. I try to clinch (establish head control with one over hook and the other hand around the back of their neck) and use that to sit up in a butterfly guard. I usually try to stand up from there.

On a side note, this video looked interesting to me, an over and under hook into a sweep.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV692quvkYc"]Marcelo Garcia On How To Defeat A Bigger, Stronger Opponent - YouTube[/ame]

 

As a big guy my biggest problem is a lack of mobility once I'm on my back. So once you get me there, keep me there (I generally think this is good advice anyway, point scoring in bjj tourneys be damned). Otherwise just be more mobile - if you are quite big it can take a while to get used to being the more agile fighter

 

rolled with the big guy again this week. man, it's so tough to deal with that much more weight than myself. i found out something interesting. this gentleman typically baits opponents into going for triangles. i put one on, and my coach who's sitting there told me he'd give me $1000 if i submitted him. unfortunately for me, i could not completely lock it in, and he used his weight to smash-pass me.

i'm going to keep going for it though. i think i've got a plan. it's actually going to force me to learn to do the triangle better. and if he smashes me again, oh well, i'm going to keep coming back for more. what the heck, it's only 300 lb. on my chest.

 

Improving your triangle is a good thing. However, part of rolling with people of different sizes and shapes is learning what to avoid as much as learning what to use.

My advice, avoid anything where you are losing mobility before you can finish. Arm bars pretty good at maintaining mobility before finish. A triangle can be done while maintaining mobility, but I've been more successful with arm triangles against larger opponents.

 

Giovanni - how are you trying to put the triangle on him? Are you squared up right in front or are you getting your body off to the side?

You might already know this but the reason I'm asking is because if you are staying in front it is going to be easier for him to posture off you. If you can grab your ankle before you put the triangle on and take your other hand and hook under his other leg and get your hips off to the side then put the triangle on.

This way when he tries to posture he will actually make the triangle tighter because he will fall forward into the ground instead of smashing you.

My point is don't go for the triangle right away. Grab your ankle so he can't pull his arm out and take your time and get yourself in a better position before putting it on.

 

Just as an aside on bugger people, here is a great vid from Rener and Ryron about size in bjj. Watch 1:45 -7:00 regarding the "Boyd belt system"

http://youtu.be/FGk_urw1_hA

 

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kCotP13AZg4[/ame]

Let uncle renzo show you.

 

If I'm sparring somebody much bigger, I'll try to get on top as soon as possible. Much better place to be than on the bottom when there is a large size difference. So, if we're starting from the knees, I'll drive forward and look for the knee-cut, or grab their trouser leg and stand up.

If I'm on the bottom for whatever reason, I'll hold them tightly in closed guard and look for a sweep. If they are so big that isn't viable (e.g., there are some people I've rolled with who I literally could not wrap my legs around), I'll go to open guard and try to create some distance (push on their shoulders and hips).

If I can't get a tripod/sickle sweep, I'll use the spider guard lasso to get some kind of control, then continue pushing them away with my legs.

If I've lost my guard, I'll curl up into a ball and look to get back to guard. The running escape works well too, though it's tempting to start stalling there.

 

I'm on the bigger side myself 6'2'' 230. Against bigger guys you're gonna want to play to your strength which most likely will be their weakness all due to morphotype i.e. agility, quickness and nonstop movement as the big guys will often tire more quickly. Being at the bottom is miserable so obv getting to any sort of top control quick is best. If on the bottom the guy is so wide you can barely close your guard, then solid open or spider guard becomes necessary I think. Spider guard give me loads of problem physically against much smaller guys as it destroys my posture and balance and opens me up for leg triangles/sweeps etc.