I'm sure it was a good experience. A year? Classes - I see...classes on Thelemia, I would presume. At that level, I'm sure the instruction par excellence. When I attended - 25 yrs ago, it was merely a camp. I understand it now an O. I didn't know anything - still don't, mind you but I was just hungry you follow? To find out. A very, basic and humble place they had then. But it war very cosy all the same. I was absolutely floored at seeing these people, quite young some of them, carrying these humongous files around with them - all of it information on Aleister - I never knew there be actually so much about him. I thought I'd read just about everything there was to read before I attended the services. How naïve we are Utterly naïve, lol. Let me ask you: What was the first thing Aleister said after he died and went to heaven?
I'm going to answer the one question that I don't need to answer because it's really none of your darn business. How can I consider myself a jew and not believe in God? Look up Sherwin Wine and Humanistic Judaism. That's how. In a nutshell, The Jewish people existed before the religion. Sure, we were a blending of several other cultures but the simple answer is the Jewish people, music, culture, history, music, art, food, etc. all existed before the religion. That's how I can call myself a Jew and not believe in a deity.
Lemonsloth, there's one school in Nevada, for example, that calls itself a Christian Aikido school. They even have a facebook page. There are a bunch of schools throughout the "bible belt" of the U.S. that advertise and promote themselves as a Christian Martial Arts school. Ironically, most of these schools had to break away from official foundations because most of those do not support the labeling of their schools with any kind of a religious affiliation. It is surprising to find any school in sin city calling itself a Christian Martial Arts school. This is one of the few states that still allows polygamous marriages so a bunch of those guys with 32+ children buy property here and then build four or five houses to occupy their brood. Sorry, didn't mean to change subjects. I'm just saying, Las Vegas is the last city you'd ever expect to find a martial arts school waving a cross. The school I'm speaking of is a JKD school. Yes, I can hide posts and I do that often. The thing with the particular page for the school is that the posts all come from the owner/instructor of the school. H doesn't have anyone else posting for him. I verified this one day when I asked who was creating the posts since I didn't see a name. So, I don't know if his students are doing the same thing. I probably won't be able to answer that since his recent memes have pushed me away from his school.
The discussion isn't if one CAN (i.e. is legally allowed) to do so. I don't think anyone here is saying they can't do it. The question is what one thinks of the practice. One can run a Mcdojo and hand out black belts like candy at halloween. No one says they CAN'T do that either, but most of us here disagree with the practice. And speak up against it when it comes up. Of course, just don't go. But one can also speak up about practices that one thinks hurts the world of MA overall. Using MA to prosletyze for religion is a bad thing for MA IMO. I really disagree with the practice of doing so.
? Is it the sandwich thing? I have no idea! I wanted to explore Thelema to basically see how much influence it had on modern Neo-paganism. A lot of pagans dispute Ceremonial Magick's influence on it. I figured the only way to find out was to go to the source. And I learned it has a great deal of influence. I also learned a lot of the misconceptions about Thelemites are just that- misconceptions. The lodge I briefly got involved in (minerval degree) was full of intelligent, funny, really really smart people. And just regular folks whom you would never guess were Thelemites if you passed them in the street. And Crowley really is misunderstood- partly because he liked to play up things instead of dispell things said about him. I wasnt totally on board with some things in the Gnostic Mass, although I am glad for the experiences of attending! Ultimately, it wasn't for me, but I have a lot of respect for it. To tie into the Original topic. Never heard of any Thelemites using MA to convert people ever!
This would be down to "Do what thou wilt, Shall be the whole of the law" it would be unthelemic to do so. Dan
The concept behind the WHOLE quote- not the misused part quote used by modern day pagans was one of the most profound things I got from my experiences. And the understanding of "will" - beautiful! The concept of "will" in Thelema is the main thing I took from my time there that was and is a profound influence on my practices to this very day!
You know, there's times I feel like I'm turning into a more civilised version of you here on MAP and feel a small amount of concern that I might go a touch too far. Then other times, with some of the stuff you post, I'd be damn proud to be more similar to you Well that's just depressing. At least they're open about it, but I wouldn't go there. For me personally, that goes a bit too far. So he was posting them under the schools' FB page? Ok, I can see why you might not be happy with that. For me personally I would still be inclined to just block it and carry on, but that's my choice. Can I just ask, before he posted some religious memes on FB, did you get a lot out of the training there?
lemonsloth, actually, I didn't. He made a huge pitch for how great his school is but his posted photos told me a different story. I don't think his school has been operating for very long. I looked at his photos that were recently taken and only count about six students. Sure, I know there's a lot of competition in Las Vegas and the whole dang state. It is a martial arts mecca. But, when one claims they are the only school in Nevada certified by the Bruce Lee Foundation I kind of expect more. Don't you?
I don't know. If the school is relatively new then I wouldn't expect a huge turnout so the student size doesn't trouble me so much. Everyone has to start somewhere after all. I would say in their defence though that sometimes when we're new to running our own groups and such we do or say things early on that only later after experience we realise may not be such a great idea. Sometimes people make mistakes and do actually learn from them and a little forgiveness can go a long way. They could surprise you. Plus the instructor and students themselves may actually be fairly moderate in person or may even completely keep it out of the training area. But again, if you're not happy with the the school owners' politics/religious views, haven't really gotten anything out of them already (I wasn't sure how much had gone on, you mentioned you'd been interacting with them which I felt was a touch vague) and you're unhappy then walk away for now. Like I said, probably not the choice I would have made (it might be something he only does on facebook :dunno but then I'm not you.
Small classes in and of themselves are not a warning sign - Sijo only had a handful of studenst at a time and the WNG with Tim Tackett has small classes. My classes run 4-8 depending on the day/time, but that is as much to do with the fact I teach out of my home dojo As I mentioned elsewhere, the BLF certification means little and if anything that more than anything else would put me off - although for different reasons
More civilized version of me is like being War instead of Death...you're still a Horseman! Hell you should see some of the things I post on FB!
"Get off My Throne" is the punch line but Hannibal's quick 'n clever response is even better than the original. Someone should submit that to Frater Hyperion's office for inclusion into the Cannon, lol. That's pretty much it in a nutshell - "Misunderstood" and "Nice people - you'd never know they were ..." I think it fair to say you nailed it on both accounts.
This has been a humbling experience - unexpected, out of the blue as it were. One never knows what some random thread may bare underneath.
