Releases from Rear Choke

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Andy Murray, Oct 15, 2002.

  1. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Assuming the initiation is upright, and your airways are being constricted by someone of superior strength using one arm;

    What do you do?
  2. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Andy

    A few tips...

    1. Counter AS the choke is going on - much later is too late!

    2. Grab his forearm with both hands and pull in down into your chest.

    3. Turn your chin into the crook of his elbow to create space to relieve the pressure on your airway.

    4. Keep your hips low and your shoulders up. Do not let him pull yopu backwards.

    5. Drop to one knee (your right knee if it's his right arm) and turn to your left - this should throw him over your right shoulder.

    6. If that fails - TAP! LOL!
  3. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Hi Dave,

    thanks for those, some good ideas, but you should know by now.......I never tap ;) lol

    I'm concerned over your 3rd response though, doesn't exposing the side of the neck create a whole other problem?

    (Maybe you're setting me up for my next visit there?)
  4. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Yes - it does - as does exposing your back in the 1st place LOL!

    At least the risk of dying from a crushed windpipe is greatly reduced by shifting - escpecially if he continues to pull straight back. Also - by isolating the forearm 1st you make it very hard for his to squeeze sideways to switch to the blood choke.
  5. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Drop the chin hard into his arm, as the lock goes on if possible. The action of dropping the chin has a similar effect to turning the head with regards to opening the airways, without exposing the side of the neck. At the same time reach up and pull at their arm with one of yours, not trying to pull it off since they'll have a more secure grip, but lessening the pressure a little. Stamp down on the instep, rake down the shin, kick back into the groin, use your free elbow, head strike backwards, anything it takes until they let go.

    That's what we teach junior students at least, at higher levels there's more complex stuff to add in.
  6. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Jimmy - have you ever had a facebar applied hard to your jaw or under your nose? Trying to tuck your chin inside his arm is giving him this option - I'd rather be choked!
  7. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Not inside his arm, down on top. Yes I have had a facebar applied, they hurt. The idea is to simply add some friction against their arm and help to prevent them increasing the grip. I've used this against a guy who can bodily pick me up and throw me across a room if he chooses to. It's not 100% effective, but it stopped him from crushing my windpipe. It was hard to breathe, but not impossible. And you only need some air in order to be able to counter and escape.

    Just so you know the guy's my instructor, otherwise I would have ended up dead since I've landed some of my best techniques on him before and he's just walked through them. He's one of those plain scary people who just keep coming no matter what. The point is though that he couldn't completely choke me, despite the massive difference in strength and size.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2002
  8. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    Actually Jimmy, I have been shown the techniques YODA mentioned(i prefer this way) and also all the other little bits you added ie instep stomp - goolie grab etc.

    One thing is for sure you have to act quickly!
  9. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Speed is essential. I prefer Yoda's way too, but I've seen students trying to apply it and failing miserably, so we teach the simple hit'em till they drop method first, then the more advanced.
  10. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Good stuf guys :D
  11. HKD

    HKD New Member

    im with yoda. i westled in school and a cross face can be very painfull and hard to get out of. i would not try your technique. i have done yods technique B 4 in an attack and that is much better than having someone grinding there 4 arm into my chin and mouth. U should let someone really crank down on U with it and C what U think.

  12. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I like yoda's way too, you must be getting a big ego yoda with all this praise ;)

    It can be too late in some cases when the choke has been put on properly. Apart from grabbing at the head, elbows or back kicks, which could have little effect. A more effective techniques I think, is grabbing a finger. If you get a good grip of one the choke is as good as off. Or try biting the arm, although this probably won't be possible unless it’s more of a face hold.
  13. HKD

    HKD New Member

    most of the time they will have a closed fist so getting a finger my not B an option. U can grip te fist and twist outward locking teh wrist and going from there into a throw. i was shown a great technique on this attack by a ninjutsu grandmaster but i forgot it, he showed us sooooo much stuff. oh well that's how it is sometimes.

  14. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Thank you thank you thank you ..... I'm here all week. :D
  15. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    The little finger is quite weak! Make a fist as hard as you can, and try pulling the little finger open with just two fingers from your other hand. It should be quite easy. And once you've got it your in charge again, give it a try.
  16. Darzeka

    Darzeka New Member

    We get taught Yoda's way too. Add an elbow strike as you grab their arm and twist and go down to one knee. We also don't turn our chin to the elbow as the elbow strike will have given me enough movement from them to do the takedown and released the arm enough to let me breathe.

    I even tried to do this to my brother when he clamped on with his legs too (he's smaller than I am) and he went flying, it was awesome.
    I asked hime to try this as most small people who will try this on me will need to jump on my back to get my neck.
  17. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    YODA'S DA MAN!!!

    Having been there, done that, got the t-shirt I've got a question. I would normally fire in a distraction before moving elbow/leg rake (or both), but I've had it happen when the guys still got a really tight grip and drags me to the ground too. Once there it is hooks in and a rear naked choke, sleepy sleepy time.

    Any takers?
  18. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    "Hooks in" is a very bad place to be for sure - but not impossible to escape from.

    There are a few nasty leg locks that you can use, depending on how far he has you pulled back & how he is holding his hooks (if he's stupid enough to cross his ankles for example).

    It's also possible to escape to his guard too if you can get over one of his hooks (the left one if his right arm is around your neck).

    But - whatever you do - do not make the usual "strikers mistake" of reaching back to try to strike his face / eyes etc. Single wing sleepy time - :D

    One of my personal favourite ways to get the armbar (Juji) is from rear hooks - and guys that reach over their shoulder make it sooooo much easier - Muhahahaaaa......
  19. Levo

    Levo Nathan Leverton

    Mentioned above, time is really the key. The sooner you begin to escape the better.

    You must also guard your neck with one or both hands straight away.

    As for the actual choke, you must stay relaxed and not panic. I also tend to close my mouth and breath through my nose as it seems to give me a few extra seconds. I wish I was like Rickson and could simply resist chokes but that just isn't going to happen...

    1) Standing with opponent behind you:

    a) Gotta agree with Dave, the shoulder throw is pretty cool in this situation

    b) Finger breaks are fine for a self defence situation but if you don't get a good grip quickly you run the risk of getting choked out

    c) If we're just grappling my favourite escape goes like this: he is putting his left arm around my throat, I turn as much as I can to the right and sharply swing my right arm backwards between our bodies (sometimes you need to let your hips move out a bit to make space). The right arm then goes across his back as you step back with your right foot. Grip your hands together and pull him in tight. You are now in a side on clinch with your head on his chest.

    2) On the floor with the hooks in:

    You MUST guard you neck and be aware of the armbar: chin down, shoulders shrugged and elbows in. You need to learn how to "hand fight" with someone on your back, being able to tie off an arm and/or block his choke will buy you time and give you opportunities.

    Escapes really depends on the position...

    a) Turtled (face down in a ball) - while guarding your neck free one or both hooks with donkey kicks or using your hands. Then either escape using sit outs, Granby rolls, switches etc or grab their head and pull them forward on to their back (I've used this a lot, even with good people). The other option is to roll face up then escape (see below).

    b) He's flattened you out face down. While guarding your neck straighten one leg sharply and get it flat to the mat between his feet (might need to shake your leg a bit to get there). With only one hook in you can now turn on to your back, with practice you can end in half guard.

    c) Face up. There are MANY escapes from here (and many leglocks as Yoda mentioned, my favourite being the Shinlock). The main thing to do for escaping is to (while guarding your neck of course) get your back to the mat. For example, if his left arm is around your neck you need to roll to your right side, as your right shoulder touches the mat wiggle your hips out to that side trying to your back to the mat (with practice, this will usually take you straight over his hook. However, if he's flexible you may need to use your right hand to free it). Once your back is on the mat there is a risk of being mounted. Use your hands on his hips to keep him back and shrimp away, turn to your knees, fight for guard or take the leglock as he tries to Mount.

    PS on the subject of the facebar. I've felt the facebars and crossfaces of MANY people, none compare to Geoff Thompson's. The pressure is just unreal!
  20. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Excellent stuff as always Levo!

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