Rehydration caps... would you vote for them?

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Saved_in_Blood, May 23, 2014.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Thanks, I thought you'd avoid the question
     
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I don't understand. You asked me what I'd do. I've told you, I'd do nothing, because no better solution exists that doesn't endanger fighters or require massive infrastructure costs.
     
  3. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Timed weigh-ins. So they know their weigh time in advance.

    Or give them some kind of variance up to the final weigh in.

    There has to be something better than the current system that allows competitors to exploit the system
     
  4. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    I said regular, not random.
     
  5. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    It doesn't endanger fighters but it puts some fighters at a large disadvantage.

    The amounts of cash floating about at Boxing events from fighters, gyms and promoters, there should be plenty to invest in making the sport fair for all.

    The biggest issue I think is the fact that there are numerous associations with their own titles.

    They ALL need to change, if it was made difficult to compete in just 1 of them, then they would lose a lot of fighters, if they all change then it's possible.

    This is again, another problem that would be easier to fix if there was a single organisation for professional boxing, rather than the 4 or so now.
     
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    But they'll just cut for each one, which is far more dangerous than one single cut. And how do you police it? Do they need to make weight at every weigh in? Is there a tolerance on the weight limit?
     
  7. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Exactly the point.

    When the risks outweigh the benefits, they will stop doing it.

    You could also do in-ring weigh ins right before the fight.

    The point is, that there are lots of people in boxing more knowledgeable than myself, there are professional more qualified to judge, or with more experience to know what can and can't work.

    But the truth is, if the industry wants to change, there are plenty of options available for them to discuss and trial. The major issues is that the big players don't want change, and the guys that pay the big money don't want change, the promoters don't want change if it means they don't get their big fighter.

    The sport is almost at the point where the financial revenues are more important than sportsmanship.
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    No they wont, there's a lot of money on the line for these fighters, if someone offered you $1,000,000 to fight dehydrated, can you honestly tell me you wouldn't do it?

    Here's the scenario - fighter wakes up on the morning of the fight. Jumps on his scale, is 1lb over the limit. What does he do? Drink a glass of water to rehydrate before calling his promoter to tell him the fight's off, or grab his kitbag and head to the sauna to drop that pound before the weigh in?
    And this is what those experts have decided is the best way forward.
    The industry doesn't want to change. This isn't a debate that has been sparked by the industry, this is a load of internet warriors getting upset because their favourite fighter got beat by someone and they're blaming a 5lb weight difference.
    Oh come on. The sport is so far past that point already.
     
  9. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I was asking based on a scenario where you would have to do something, not one that was to support your argument. I'm asking for an unbiased way to level the playing field.
     
  10. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Ok, so I can't give my honest opinion? What am I? A civil servant?

    Ok, so assuming my boss was the kind of person who doesn't understand that doing nothing is sometimes the best option, I'd go with random weigh-ins for 10 days before the fight. During that time I'd require the fighter to be within 5% of the weight limit. There's nothing stopping a fighter from maintaining a cut for 10 days and doing themselves serious harm, but since we no longer care about the welfare of these individuals, that doesn't matter, now does it?
     
  11. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    So you don't feel that risk of a MW fighting a cruiserweight on fight night can be dangerous to the other fighters health either then... ok got it.
     
  12. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Relative to a dehydrated fighter being punched in the head? No, not at all.
     
  13. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    Hmm, that's a fair point. But out of curiosity, would fighters really risk doing that to themselves for such a long period of time, especially given how much it can leave them feeling weak and unable to perform properly?
     
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Most professional boxers aren't millionaires. To most of them, missing a fight could mean their children go hungry. So yeah, I think a lot of them would take that risk.
     
  15. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Your arguments can be extrapolated to allow any banned practices in all sports.

    Why ban steroids? They're available to everybody.

    These guys are apparently professionals, if they cannot maintain weight safely then the system needs to be looked at. Either the fighter doesn't have the discipline or have an incorrect diet, or are simply trying to do something which is not feasible.

    Weight classes are there to keep fights fair, and to stop the risk of massive weight differences, what is the point of the weight classes if they are manipulated by fighters?

    If they're overweight the fight is off, the fact that this practice is acceptable leads to fighters cutting, if it was acceptable fighters would learn to keep weight to get paid.

    http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/boxers-lose-weight-fast-1477.html

    http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym2.htm

    http://boxing.isport.com/boxing-guides/how-to-safely-cut-weight-for-boxing

    https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...ng-weight-boxing-lethal-secret-212809382.html

    I ask you to please link to a source, that suggests weight cutting is safe and acceptable.

    All sources I seem to find are against cutting, this practice is now pretty universally accepted, this eventually will filter down and become the norm in amateur boxing too, where the risks are even greater with the reduced level of knowledge and medical care.

    These "professionals" and promoters, and money makers from this sport, including the organisations, have a duty of care to the sport, they are the ones who don't want change.

    Boxers do it because they have to, to get the fights, to get the pay, that is the responsibility of managers and promoters, who are just there to make money off the fighter, I would quite happily bet that the vast majority of boxers would prefer to not need to weight cut.
     
  16. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    *sigh*

    No, they can't.
    And they do that. Most fighters enter the ring at similar weights. That happens because both fighters cut similar amounts of weight and rehydrate to roughly the same degree.
    That doesn't counter the scenario I put forward previously. Would the average fighter a) pull out of a fight because they were overweight or b) cut water weight to make the limit? The answer is b.

    Now, given that the answer is b, what can the sports do to mitigate the risk posed by those water weight cuts? Simple. They have to give enough time between the weigh in and the fight for the fighter to rehydrate fully.

    Hence why we have the system we currently do and why the system doesn't need to change.
    I ask you to pay attention. I've said multiple times that cutting weight is unhealthy. I've said it over and over again.
    So the only people who don't want change are the participants and the people who make the sport happen. So none of the primary stakeholders want change. Ok...so...who wants change?

    No one makes the fighters cut. They do it because it offers them the best chance to succeed in the fight.
     
  17. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    So again, what is the difference between performance enhancing drugs and cutting?

    Why is it fair for somebody to fight at a natural weight vs somebody who has cut and is a considerable number of lbs heavier?

    Do you agree that cutting to that extent should happen in amateur competition and is acceptable?
     
  18. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    That's a good point. I hadn't thought about the pay cheque issue.

    I get where you're going but surely there's a massive difference between being "X" pounds heavier than the weight limit versus being on PEDs?
     
  19. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    I think the point is that steroids are banned in competition because even though everyone can get hold of them (or could if they were no longer banned) it would mean that in order to remain competitive the fighter would have to put their body at risk "to an unreasonable degree".

    Similarly even if de-hydrating for a weight cut is available to all, is it really fair that for a fighter to be competitive they have to do it?

    If you support weight cutting because, despite the health risks etc, it is available to everyone and "fighting is dangerous anyway" there is little to stop you from saying "steroids are available to everyone and fighting is dangerous anyway, so we should just legalize them".
     
  20. puma

    puma Valued Member

    I think most fighters should be around their fighting weight all the time anyway. Why wouldn't they be if they are training all the time? Which they should be if they are pro. I don't get the, "I'm not fighting until the end of the year, so I won't train until I am due in camp," thing. Blowing up to ridiculous levels, like a Hatton for example, can't be healthy, and certainly can't help you perfect your craft. Things won't be natural if you keep having time off. Training shouldn't just be about getting fit and making weight.
     

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