Rehydration caps... would you vote for them?

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Saved_in_Blood, May 23, 2014.

  1. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    It is the same argument, it's laughable you can't see it. The very same type of argument, except that one was already deemed illegal long ago so you can't see the similarities. Let me help you using your own sentence. Imagine this was a thread on steroids and whether they should be used in MMA or not. This is your argument.

    "Their opponents have exactly the same opportunity to get stronger using steroids. Most of them do and what you end up with is an even fight. If their opponent chooses not to - that is their choice."

    Steroids are illegal because of their negative health repercussions and they give an unfair advantage to one person if the other isn't using them. The dehydration issue has negative health consequences, and gives an unfair advantage if someone isn't doing it. Exact same issue.

    In IFBB competition, they don't test for steroids and so many body builders use them, nearly all. But there are many who don't because they don't want to deal with the side affects to their health. So, those who take them have an advantage over those who don't. It's just like you are saying the "natural" body builders should start using juice since it's part of the game.
     
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Nope. Not the same at all. One's legal, one's not.
     
  3. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    But that's the very debate here, whether dehydration should be considered against the rules. You can't just say, "well, it's not against the rules, so there's no point arguing about it, no point relating it to similar things that have already been deemed against the rules."
     
  4. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Moving the weigh in closer to the fight would increase the risk to the fighters.
    Having a percentage cap on the weight gain post weigh-in would dis-incentivise rehydrating fully before the fight, which would increase risk to the fighters.

    You can say 'ban it, it's unfair' all you like, but you can't act like you are worried about the fighter's health when all of your suggestions would make an already dangerous sport even more dangerous.

    None of this makes it anything like the same as PED usage.
     
  5. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    Not if, as I suggested, it also required a hydration test of the urine with in an hour of the fight.
     
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    And what level of hydration would you require? How would you test it? What about errors in testing? The time lag before hydration is fully expressed in urine? What about the impact of legal supplements on hormones that impact on the performance of the kidneys? What about people with different hormonal levels leading to different kidney performance?

    So many questions.
     
  7. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    It's interesting that you keep questioning his logic, yet you have not bothered to comment on what I posted. You need to just concede that you're wrong.. period.
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    That wall of text you posted added nothing to the discussion. We've already conceded that cutting weight is unhealthy, but it doesn't change the fact that all the other ideas put the fighters at greater risk.
     
  9. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    These answers would be best decided after the UFC formed a blue ribbon committee of experts to determine these answers. Hormones don't have a major impact on someones water in their ****, not enough to make them appear to be dehydrated. Do you even know what you are talking about? Anyway, we don't need to come up with all the answers on this forum, particularly since this is just a discussion. The purpose is to decide if "cutting" should be banned for health and fair competition reasons. If so, and I think the evidence for banning is much stronger than your pure generalized rhetoric for not. At that point, the discussion would lead to the practicality for enforcement and repercussions of a ban. I'm guessing you've never done anything like this in your professional life, thus why you keep trying to jump to your opinion, rather than build a cohesive dialogue similar to what professionals would do. Of course, most people on the internet don't have this experience, so I shouldn't be surprised in anyone's lack of ability to hold a proper debate.
     
  10. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Hormones have a very big impact on the amount of urine you produce, or do you not live in a world where mammals produce arginine vasopressin?
    Fighting dehydrated is dangerous - much more dangerous than cutting water weight.
    The weigh ins are a day before fights to ensure that fighters can properly rehydrate.
    Tests for rehydration are complicated and not designed for this kind of application and fighters will still try to work at the limits of hydration to weigh in as light as possible - that's not good.
    Oh get off your high horse. I smashed through your schoolyard argument with science and you're having to resort to ad hominem stuff. Get a grip.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  11. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Keep it civil people. I will not stand for another thread ending up in back and forth bitching and personal attacks. Bans will be handed out if you cannot play nicely with each other.
     
  12. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    You feel that you did, but you really didn't. You really didn't answer his questions and the reason you attempt to say that what I posted is about safety is among just one of several reasons why we shouldn't have people having the 15, 20, or even 25 lb weight advantage on the day of a fight. The truth is your argument about is weak at best, and I really don't understand why you even bother to come onto the boxing forum. You have shown very little knowledge about boxing in general.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  13. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Regular weighs for a longer period of time to ensure that the fighters are maintaining weight.

    If they have to be at their fighting weight for 4 to 6 weeks before hand it makes cutting much more difficult and people are more likely to just fight at a healthy weight rather than try and maintain ridiculously low weights through cutting for that length of time.
     
  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I don't think it's logistically feasible. Random weight checks? I think you'd have a tough time convincing any fighter that that is a good idea. What if they are called to weigh in after they've finished a large meal? Or after they've drank a couple of litres of water? They gonna get kicked off the card for failing to make weight 6 weeks out from the fight?
     
  15. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    The next person who brings personal vendettas from one thread into another will get a ban. Keep things on topic and stop disrupting threads with issues from other threads.
     
  16. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    The problem with random weight checking is that weight can fluctuate quite dramatically.
     
  17. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Might be hard to convince the people who are 1-2 weight classes below where they should be yeah.

    So, instead... why don't you tell us what your idea would be? I'm very curious to hear it. If you were the head of the commission and you decided or were told that something needed to be done... what would you do to change it?
     
  18. Yatezy

    Yatezy One bad mamba jamba

    On the Froch-Groves undercard Kevin Mitchell weighed over the IBF's rehydration limit of 10lbs. If the IBF have a limit when they reweigh on the day why dont the other organisations enforce this?
     
  19. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I'd tell them that after extensive consultations with the internet, our current system, whilst flawed, offers the best combination of equality and safety given the alternatives.
     
  20. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I thought the IBF only use the limit for title fights and it just determines whether a fighter is eligible to win the belt. If they miss weight and then win the fight, the title becomes vacant.

    It incentivises fighters to not fully rehydrate after a weigh in - it's a dangerous rule.
     

Share This Page